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Question Is it only me, or does the solar system and the atoms seem similar?

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Jul 30, 2021
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what meaning, if any, is there supposed to be in this?
It's just human nature, like seeing shapes in the clouds. I find that when you talk to people about science immediately downplaying something they find interesting is a real good way to kill their interest.

We live in a universe of spiraling star systems and galaxies, and we're made of matter composed of electrons spiraling around clumps of mass. People are inevitably going to sense something 'deep' there even if the forces at work are completely different.
 
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Mar 29, 2021
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What is the connection between the torus and the atom?
Cat :)
rotating magnetic torus
:oops:sorry, iconic thinking.
I haven't the math to describe it.
multiple 'energy' fields (torusses? torii?)
rotating at right angles(?) to each other
interacting with (misnamed) dark matter/energy
resulting in gravity(?)
dependent on number of interactions:
greater mass~higher gravity . . .hmm...
that would open some intriguing possibilities.... ♾️
 
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Jul 22, 2021
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"Is it only me, or does the solar system and the atoms seem similar?"

"It's just human nature, like seeing shapes in the clouds."

That about sums it up.


I agree; the solar system and atoms are two very different things.

We’ve seen that the BOHR modelling and initial diagrammatic representations and ways it were taught in high school have been misleading and we can now see the reality of the differences between the two.

Whilst they seem similar but aren’t actually the same constituents or angular momentum features or forces etc, there are still some similarities from a broader perspective:

- a central point (nucleus and sun)
- things in orbit around that central point (electrons, planets)
- forces making it all happen (electromagnetism, gravity)
- central point makes up same mass of the total area (nucleus=99.9% of total mass in atom, sun=99.8% of total mass in solar system)
- there are many of them (a very large number for the number of atoms to exist, and we don’t know how many solar or planetary systems exist, at least 100billion some think)
etc


Whilst there are differences (electrons vs planets, electromagnetism vs gravity, different orbital momentum)we know the actual correct representation of the atom is in fact very different, there are some similarities from a broader perspective

They don’t look exactly the same and have different constituents and forces at play etc, but have some broader similarities

"Is it only me, or does the solar system and the atoms seem similar?"

They have noticeable differences and have broader similarities

Thank you 😊
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
If you are addressing me, "noticeable differences and broader similarities" means just about sweet nothing. Since there is no real connection whatsoever between planets circling the Sun and electrons in an atom, that is not surprising.

Cat :)
 
Dec 2, 2021
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OMG, you just blew my mind! I guess the idea hovered around the edge of my mind but never became fully realized. Also, that raises the possibility of the universe being part of an atom and our universe making up untold numbers of other universes in a never-ending loop.
 
OMG, you just blew my mind! I guess the idea hovered around the edge of my mind but never became fully realized. Also, that raises the possibility of the universe being part of an atom and our universe making up untold numbers of other universes in a never-ending loop.
Infinite regression is possible.
If something is possible then?

Why not a galaxy of universes itself just 1 galaxy in that universe etc.
An atom an entire universe.

Endless energy needs for the tiny regression seems unlikely but energy needs for the big bigger etc break no E laws.
 
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Aug 14, 2020
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Infinite regression is possible.
If something is possible then?

Why not a galaxy of universes itself just 1 galaxy in that universe etc.
An atom an entire universe.

Endless energy needs for the tiny regression seems unlikely but energy needs for the big bigger etc break no E laws.
Keep stretching the mind, VPE. Just remember though, find confirmations in seemingly differing things as you go. What you think to be a possibility that cannot possibly be tested or otherwise confirmed in itself, will be represented locally, relatively speaking, in seemingly -- just seemingly -- unrelated areas. That or something that is always taken for granted, thought too local and too common to scale up (though it will be quite proper to be very leery of doing this last (rivals "History always repeats in large aspect, though never -- well almost never -- in fine detail(s))).
 
Infinite regression is possible.
If something is possible then?

Why not a galaxy of universes itself just 1 galaxy in that universe etc.
An atom an entire universe.

Endless energy needs for the tiny regression seems unlikely but energy needs for the big bigger etc break no E laws.
Any kind of structure is usually formed from some kind of starting point and takes the materials available and combines them according to a set of rules such as when an ice crystal forms. It doesn't all form at once it takes time and to become infinite in size it would need an infinite amount of time, but before that, it would have hit and interacted with something else.

If space is infinite and full of an infinite number of other big bangs, then any kind of grouping or clustering will come to an end either because of a lack of more materials to combine with or collision with neighbouring material trying to do the same. In other words, I don't think you can have a one-off infinite structure (for example the infinite regression you are proposing), at some point things must average out, so over an infinite amount of space everything will on average be just that - average.

Sorry but I think it's as boring as that, so instead of trying to find another big bang just appreciate the one wev'e got, because all the others are probably similar if the laws of physics are universal.
 
Any kind of structure is usually formed from some kind of starting point and takes the materials available and combines them according to a set of rules such as when an ice crystal forms. It doesn't all form at once it takes time and to become infinite in size it would need an infinite amount of time, but before that, it would have hit and interacted with something else.

If space is infinite and full of an infinite number of other big bangs, then any kind of grouping or clustering will come to an end either because of a lack of more materials to combine with or collision with neighbouring material trying to do the same. In other words, I don't think you can have a one-off infinite structure (for example the infinite regression you are proposing), at some point things must average out, so over an infinite amount of space everything will on average be just that - average.

Sorry but I think it's as boring as that, so instead of trying to find another big bang just appreciate the one wev'e got, because all the others are probably similar if the laws of physics are universal.
If time even exists and a universe can start from nothing then they are both boundless and timeless.
Infinite structures will form.
Who is to say when that first happened, could be an infinite time ago or this is the first happening.
Dark flow IMO is trying to tell us we are not a one off universe event.
If we can have dark flow between neighbors and they all formed at the same time then all would have dark flow and grander structure forming or formed.

Going infinite small i think is going to run into conservation of energy problems.
Infinite energy for every size seems like it would destroy conservation..
 
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Keep stretching the mind, VPE. Just remember though, find confirmations in seemingly differing things as you go. What you think to be a possibility that cannot possibly be tested or otherwise confirmed in itself, will be represented locally, relatively speaking, in seemingly -- just seemingly -- unrelated areas. That or something that is always taken for granted, thought too local and too common to scale up (though it will be quite proper to be very leery of doing this last (rivals "History always repeats in large aspect, though never -- well almost never -- in fine detail(s))).
Always fun to think out of the box :)
Going to bigger structures if we are not it alone is probably going to be reality depending on when everything started.
Could have started forever ago or this is round 1.
If time is only a property of Q foam then time doesn't really exist and the start point doesn't exist.

Dark flow is really an interesting read.
It leads you down the path of neighbor universes and what speeding up expansion might be.
It also allows galaxies to merge in expansion a problem that haunts classic expansion.

Going smaller forever is going to lead to infinite energy for every level of size so i think small will only be so small then nada between.
Then again smaller is a great place to hide dark matter energy. :)
 

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