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this news ( CEV docking ring on JWST that it cant reach on Ares ) reminded me of this old anecdote.<br /><br />father and a son are fishing in the boat. son pulls out a beautiful mermaid. Tail and all that. Father sighs, and tosses her back into water.<br />the son cries "but .. but ... WHY?"<br />the father responds "but HOW ?? "
<font color="yellow">edit
ish posh! How dare you contradict a professional with double secret insider info!;-)</font><br /><br />I think Jim is right. Mechanical refirgeration with a closed system doesn't make the fluid a limiting factor for mission duration like it was on Gravity Probe B. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
ish posh! How dare you contradict a professional with double secret insider info!;-)</font><br /><br />I think Jim is right. Mechanical refirgeration with a closed system doesn't make the fluid a limiting factor for mission duration like it was on Gravity Probe B. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Frankly, I think "reusability" and "serviceability", while noble concepts, in practise ended up being little more than buzzwords to give a mission more appeal when selling it to the budget people. While I love what's been done with the Hubble servicing missions, I do wonder what the cost difference would've been to just launch more space telescopes.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Yeah that seems to be the present reality. I'm hoping that the future will hold continuous usage modules of tools and robots that stay in orbit/space and are resupplied with fuel and consumables. I think a tool like the Canadarm can be developed into such a tool. Other tools could be added too like a tug. But maybe commercial space will do it if it finds a market for it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
"I'm hoping that the future will hold continuous usage modules of tools and robots that stay in orbit/space and are resupplied with fuel and consumables."<br /><br />What orbit? other than GSO, there is no orbit that is propulated enough to make this worth while.
<font color="yellow">I think Jim is right. Mechanical refirgeration with a closed system doesn't make the fluid a limiting factor for mission duration like it was on Gravity Probe B.</font><br /><br />It does if you get a leak, and there are micrometeoroids even at L points. Those coolant lines are in places open targets, especially near the detectors. If that happens a servicing mission is necessary to preserve a />$billion asset. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
http://www.nasa.gov : Goddard Team Obtains the 'Unobtainium' for NASA's Next Space Observatory
Wiki : James Webb Space Telescope
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adi4ADVlUvg[/youtube]
...09.28.10
The James Webb Space Telescope has completed testing at temperatures below -411 degrees Fahrenheit, or 27 Kelvin. Credit: NASA/Goddard
Imagine building a car chassis without a blueprint or even a list of recommended construction materials.
In a sense, that's precisely what a team of engineers at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., did when they designed a one-of-a-kind structure that is one of 9 key new technology systems of the Integrated Science Instrument Module (ISIM). Just as a chassis supports the engine and other components in a car, the ISIM will hold four highly sensitive instruments, electronics, and other shared instrument systems flying on the James Webb Space Telescope, NASA's next flagship observatory.
From scratch — without past experience to help guide them — the engineers designed the ISIM made of a never-before-manufactured composite material and proved through testing that it could withstand the super-cold temperatures it would encounter when the observatory reached its orbit 1.5-million kilometers (930,000 miles) from Earth. In fact, the ISIM structure survived temperatures that plunged as low as 27 Kelvin (-411 degrees Fahrenheit), colder than the surface of Pluto.
"It is the first large, bonded composite spacecraft structure to be exposed to such a severe environment," said Jim Pontius, ISIM lead mechanical engineer.
...
...
Doug McGuffey is pictured here standing next to the Integrated Science Instrument Module (ISIM) Flight Structure. Credit: NASA/Chris Gunn
Wiki : James Webb Space Telescope
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adi4ADVlUvg[/youtube]
Re: James Webb telescope will have dockingring for Orion
merged old topic with this one...seemed the better direction to go to me.
MW
merged old topic with this one...seemed the better direction to go to me.
MW
http://www.ukspaceagency.bis.gov.uk : MIRI starts space adventure at STFC's Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
ESA link (more images)
sci.esa.int : MIRI starts to take shape
sci.esa.int : Integration of MIRI flight model
sci.esa.int : MIRI in the cleanroom at RAL
sci.esa.int : Schematic diagram of the MIRI instrument
sci.esa.int : MIRI optical bench assembly and key subsystems
...Page last updated: 30 September 2010
by the UK Space Agency
MIRI being prepared for testing
Credit: STFC
The pioneering camera and spectrometer for the James Webb Space Telescope – the gigantic successor to the Hubble Telescope – is about to receive its first taste of the harsh conditions of space, without even leaving the UK.
The sophisticated instrument - designed to examine the first light in the Universe and the formation of planets around other stars – will shortly be put through its paces in the space test chamber at the Science and Technology Facility Council’s Rutherford Appleton Laboratory (RAL). The tests include ensuring it can survive the vibrations of a rocket launch and operate successfully in the cold vacuum of space.
The journey to space began a few months ago when the flight model of MIRI was integrated at RAL, from key parts that have been developed at institutes across Europe. Each of these parts of MIRI have already, separately, undergone exhaustive mechanical and thermal testing to make sure they can not only survive the rigours of a journey into space, but also remain operational for the life of the mission. Now the whole instrument will be tested using specially designed facilities developed at RAL to simulate the environment that the instrument will experience once in space.
"Bringing the Flight Model MIRI to readiness for the testing is the culmination of several years hard work and dedication from the teams all around Europe along with the efforts from our US colleagues. The fact that we are now at that point is testament to the tremendous team spirit in the MIRI Consortium and there will be many people waiting to hear the test results" said John Thatcher, the MIRI European project manager from Astrium Ltd.
Dr David Parker, Director of Space Science and Exploration for the UK Space Agency, said, “MIRI is in for a tough old time in this mock space environment but we’re confident that this unique instrument is up to the job.”
He added, “With the UK playing a lead role in the instrument and the UK Astronomy Technology Centre being the overall science lead for it, this project is a great example of how the specialist skills of our UK scientists and space companies are being utilised for the biggest and most ambitious international space projects.”
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...
ESA link (more images)
sci.esa.int : MIRI starts to take shape
sci.esa.int : Integration of MIRI flight model
Date: 08 Sep 2010
Satellite: JWST
Depicts: MIRI
Copyright: MIRI European Consortium/RAL
The MIRI instrument pictured in the clean room at the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, UK, during integration of the flight model, in Summer 2010.
sci.esa.int : MIRI in the cleanroom at RAL
Date: 08 Sep 2010
Satellite: JWST
The MIRI instrument pictured in the cleanroom at the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, UK, during integration of the flight model, in Summer 2010.
sci.esa.int : Schematic diagram of the MIRI instrument
Date: 14 Apr 2010
Satellite: JWST
Copyright: University of Arizona
Overview of the MIRI instrument. The instrument is attached to the JWST Integrated Science Instrument Module (ISIM) by the CFRP hexapod (triangular structure at left).
sci.esa.int : MIRI optical bench assembly and key subsystems
Date: 14 Apr 2010
Satellite: JWST
Copyright: University of Leicester, UK
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbk0JhP3ubk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdz5gpM_VXs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdz5gpM_VXs[/youtube]
http://www.nasa.gov : Webb Telescope Sunshield Passes Launch Depressurization Tests to Verify Flight Design
...10.08.10
Dan McGregor with a sunshield test article Northrop Grumman Lead Venting Analyst Dan McGregor with a sunshield test article as it is placed in the vacuum chamber at Aerospace Systems' test facility in Redondo Beach, Calif. Credit: Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems
NASA's James Webb Space Telescope continues to make significant progress, successfully completing a series of sunshield vent tests that validate the telescope's sunshield design.
"While adequate venting is a design consideration for all spaceflight hardware, this was a particularly unique challenge for the sunshield given the large volume of trapped air in the membrane system at launch," said Keith Parrish, Webb telescope sunshield manager at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "From the beginning of its development venting features have been a critical part of the overall sunshield design. Since we cannot vent test the actual flight article these test have shown the design works and the sunshield will vent safely on its way to orbit."
The sunshield on the Webb telescope will block the heat of the Sun and Earth from reaching the cold section of the Observatory. That's a critical function because the telescope and instruments must be cooled below 50 Kelvin (~-369.7 Fahrenheit) to allow them to see faint infrared emissions from astronomical objects. The sunshield consists of five layers of Kapton ®E with aluminum and doped-silicon coatings to reflect the sun's heat back into space.
Using flight-like sunshield membranes, the tests are designed to mimic the rapid change in air pressure the folded sunshield will experience the first minutes of launch. Several different folding configurations each underwent a series of 90-second depressurization tests and proved that the stowed sunshield will retain its shape during launch and allow trapped air to escape safely, both critical to sunshield deployment and performance.
Northrop Grumman Lead Venting Analyst Dan McGregor inspects a sunshield test article for the sunshield section on top of the spacecraft around the tower that supports the telescope. Credit: Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems.
Northrop Grumman Corporation is leading Webb's design and development effort for NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. The first tests were conducted the last week of August in vacuum chambers at Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems' Redondo Beach facility. Another series of complementary tests were completed in October where air was injected into the stowed sunshield test article, and that provided more detailed data used in evaluating analytical models.
"This is another significant risk reduction activity that continues to move sunshield development forward," said Scott Willoughby, Webb Telescope program manager for Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems. "We have demonstrated the effectiveness of our sunshield vent design."
Three critical full-scale sections of the sunshield were tested: the section on top of the spacecraft around the tower that supports the telescope; the vertical pallet structure that contains the folded sunshield membranes, and the intervening four-bar linkage area that is folded in an inverted V-shape. The flow paths are complex and the sunshield material, a tough plastic film, Kapton ®E, is only one to two thousandths of an inch thick and covers a surface area the size of a tennis court.
The James Webb Space Telescope is the world's next-generation space observatory and successor to the Hubble Space Telescope. The most powerful space telescope ever built, Webb will observe the most distant objects in the universe, provide images of the very first galaxies ever formed and see unexplored planets around distant stars.
The Webb Telescope is a joint project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Canadian Space Agency.
For more information on the James Webb Space Telescope, visit:
http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/
http://www.universetoday.com : Costs for James Webb Telescope Soar — Again
SDC : NASA's Next Big Space Telescope to Cost an Extra $1.5 Billion
http://www.nasa.gov : James Webb Space Telescope Independent Comprehensive Review Panel -- Nov. 10, 2010 Final Report (1 MB PDF)
http://www.nasa.gov : Review Panel Chair John Casani's Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden (68k PDF)
mikulski.senate.gov : Sen. Mikulski letter to NASA on JWST's new cost estimate
www.spaceref.com : NASA Administrator Bolden Statement On The Webb Telescope
...Nov 10th, 2010
by Nancy Atkinson
Artists concept of the James Webb Space Telescope in space. Credit: NASA
The price tag for NASA’s next big space telescope keeps rising and the launch date will likely be delayed as well. A new report from an independent panel on the James Webb Space Telescope reveals it will take about $6.5 billion to launch and run the telescope for its projected 10-year mission. The price had previously ballooned from $3.5 billion to $5 billion. Originally the telescope was slated to launch in 2007, but was pushed back to 2014. Now, the panel says, the earliest launch date would be in September 2015.
The panel, requested by Congress, said there appears to be no technical issues with the telescope, but budget and management problems are the reasons for the cost overruns and delays.
“There is no reason to question the technical integrity of the design or of the team’s ability to deliver a quality product to orbit,” said John Casani from the Jet Propulsion Lab, who chaired the panel. “The problems causing cost growth and schedule delays have been associated with budgeting and program management, not technical performance.”
The money to cover the overruns will require $250 million more in NASA’s FY 2011 and 2012 budget. But with the current state of affairs in the country and Congress, it is likely other programs will suffer or be cut in order to pay for JWST.
SDC : NASA's Next Big Space Telescope to Cost an Extra $1.5 Billion
...By Amy Klamper
Space News Staff Writer
posted: 10 November 2010
05:59 pm ET
WASHINGTON — NASA's James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) is expected to cost at least $1.5 billion more than current estimates and its launch will be delayed a minimum of 15 months, according to an independent review panel tapped to investigate escalating costs and management issues with the next-generation flagship astronomy mission.
U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) called for the independent review in June to identify the root causes of cost growth and schedule delays on the JWST.
"The Webb telescope will now cost $6.5 billion, $1.5 billion more than the estimate included in NASA's February 2010 budget request, Mikulski wrote in a Nov. 10 letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden after reading the Oct. 29 report. "Its launch will be delayed by over a year, from June 2014 to September 2015."
http://www.nasa.gov : James Webb Space Telescope Independent Comprehensive Review Panel -- Nov. 10, 2010 Final Report (1 MB PDF)
http://www.nasa.gov : Review Panel Chair John Casani's Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden (68k PDF)
mikulski.senate.gov : Sen. Mikulski letter to NASA on JWST's new cost estimate
www.spaceref.com : NASA Administrator Bolden Statement On The Webb Telescope
What Golden and the others did not consider was that a 4m scope could have been launched years ago and at a fraction of the cost, since a one-piece mirror could have been used rather than the complex deployment system. Several duplicates could have been launched at little additional cost, so observing time would be already be much greater than the Webb will ever provide. Diffraction limit would be slightly lower but it could be used for visible light astronomy as well. We would have learned a great deal by now, at a lower cost. And operational experience would make the next evolutionary step less expensive. Sometimes it's better to take things one step at a time. As it is, NASA must cancel something to keep Webb on track. I would have to suggest Orion as a candidate, since it is redundant to Dragon and CST-100.
Just trying to do things because they are spectacular is pointless. Neither NASA nor the country can afford it. When Golden sugggested doubling tghe size, the natural response was "we can do anything". A more appropriate response might have been "Let's take things one step at a time."
James Webb was already severely restricting what the astronomy budget could support. This is probably going to be the death knell for a number of other programs.
Oh, I forgot, the money for the telescope can only come from other science programs. They can't do something logical, like take the money from an unnecessary "exploration" program.
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