Kaidun Meteorite. A piece of Phobos??

3488 · Apr 5, 2008

Hi MeteorWayne,What do you think?http://www.astrobio.net/cgi-bin/h2p.cgi?sid=936&ext=.pdfImage of Kaidun Meteorite. A piece of the Mars moon Phobos? <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/1/a94f34e9-a1ff-41fb-a17d-29105fdde09b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Apr 5, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi MeteorWayne,What do you think?http://www.astrobio.net/cgi-bin/h2p.cgi?sid=936&ext=.pdfImage of Kaidun Meteorite. A piece of the Mars moon Phobos?Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV>Without more reserach, all I can say is very interesting.Since it came from New Scientist, I'll have to do some backtracking to the source material. And of course, proof will likely have to wait for a while, until we sample Phobos directly.Hopefully, in our lifetime!!Thanx Andrew, our many eyes are greater than our own pair! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Apr 5, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Without more reserach, all I can say is very interesting.Since it came from New Scientist, I'll have to do some backtracking to the source material. And of course, proof will likely have to wait for a while, until we sample Phobos directly.Hopefully, in our lifetime!!Thanx Andrew, our many eyes are greater than our own pair! Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>You are always more than welcome Wayne.I agree, we will have to have actual samples from Phobos or Deimos to ascertain if this rock is really from either. It's just that it seems to match the spectral data from Phobos, but then so do many asteroids in the outer part of the Asteroid Belt, as well as the very outermost moons in retrograde orbits around Jupiter, like Sinope, Pasiphae, Erinome, Ananke, etc.So it's a very difficult one to call. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Apr 5, 2008

Indeed interesting, I had not heard of this before.  Material ejected from Mars could strike Phobos at 8 km/s, which would account for the high shocking and the differentiated fragments.  This inspired me to hunt for some more links, here they are.http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4902http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1236.pdfIt is a little surprising that it has taken 5 years for the story to get out.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Apr 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Indeed interesting, I had not heard of this before.  Material ejected from Mars could strike Phobos at 8 km/s, which would account for the high shocking and the differentiated fragments.  This inspired me to hunt for some more links, here they are.http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4902http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1236.pdfIt is a little surprising that it has taken 5 years for the story to get out.  Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Hi Jon, I am surprised that you had not come across this before considering your considerable knowledge of such matters, so I am surprised that I have bought something so new here.Kaidun Meteorite does appear to be a mongrel, a few pieces of Martian lava empedded in very primitive unevolved carbonaceous material. This thing is absolutely priceless, regarding the information contained within.Really dedicated landers to both of the Martian moons is clearly long overdue, though the soviets did make a pair of bold attempts with Phobos 1 & Phobos 2.Hopefully also, the ESA does hold to the promise that Phobos & Deimos figure prominently in the Mars Express mission post Mars Phoenix Lander EDL commitment (that rightly comes first in the short term).There is SO much to be learnt from both moons.Below is an interesting person worth contacting, something I will do.http://www.unreasonableman.net/2004/04/new_scientist_1.htmlI hope exoscientist / Bob Clarke  finds this interesting also.Below a detailed description of the chemical makeup & electron miscroscope imagery of the Kaidun Meteorite.http://www.kurat.at/pdf/421.pdfPhobos from ESA Mars Express. November 2004. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/3/81b7627f-e305-4e3d-a37d-4141b2fc22bd.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Deimos from ESA Mars Express. March 2005. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/4/4116655e-7d1f-4b02-94c7-68b352cb8bd9.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Apr 10, 2008

Hi AndrewI ran this this past a friend who is a phobos-phile (now there is a scary neologism).  He said that we are still sufficiently unsure about the composition of Phobos to make this likely.Of course if the achondritic fragments could be shown to be Martian, this would increase the liklihood, IMHO.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Apr 10, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi AndrewI ran this this past a friend who is a phobos-phile (now there is a scary neologism).  He said that we are still sufficiently unsure about the composition of Phobos to make this likely.Of course if the achondritic fragments could be shown to be Martian, this would increase the liklihood, IMHO.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Cheers  Jon.Yes, I can see where he is coming from. Perhaps the recent MRO HiRISE obs as well as the post Pheonix EDL Mars Express obs will help. There's nothing wrong with being a Phobosphile. Phobos is a fascinating little world, that deserves further exploration. I am a bit of an Iophile, so that makes me pretty weird. Where I think the Phobos link is suggested is the fact the achondrite fragments are embedded in very primitive Carbonaceous material.What I think we can be certain of, is that the Kaidun Meteorite is a real mongrel, with the highly evolved volcanic achondrite fragments being embedded in very primitive unevolved carbonaceous material.It makes sense through logic that material from a volcanically active body, past or present, was somehow embedded in material on a very primitive unevolved one. Mars & Phobos or Mars & Deimos fit that scenario. As you say, not enough is known for 100% sure for this meteorite to be a peice of Phobos, only that it does seem very likely. I hope the multispectral obs done by MRO & Mars Express, will help clarify, though really we need a Phobos lander, to sample materials on the surface & even bring a piece back. Likewise with Deimos.I will do some more digging myself to see how Phobos & Deimos share or differ from what is known about Jupiter's outermost family of retrograding, primitive moons, such as Pasiphae, Ananke, Carme or Sinope. What a shame New Horizons, Galileo or either Voyager, could not have encountered one.Once again, thank you very much Jon for your input. Like yourself, I would love to know where the Kaidun Meteorite comes from & how highly evolved & very primitive materials became 'mixed up'. I still think Mars & Phobos or Mars & Deimos is still very likely. Things appear to have gone quiet on PhobosGrunt. Hope it's still happening.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Apr 11, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Things appear to have gone quiet on PhobosGrunt. Hope it's still happening.. Posted by 3488</DIV>Still aim for 2011.  Since there is now ESA, Cinese and Finnish input I think it is much more like to be launched.  Given their past record, whether it gets to do anything useful is anybody's guess.  It will be Russia's first planetary mission for 13 years.There is a nice U-tube video of the mission sequence (prior incorporation of the Finish penetrators and the Chinese micro orbiter) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0cUvK0Dgy8Jon Jon   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Apr 14, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Still aim for 2011.  Since there is now ESA, Cinese and Finnish input I think it is much more like to be launched.  Given their past record, whether it gets to do anything useful is anybody's guess.  It will be Russia's first planetary mission for 13 years.There is a nice U-tube video of the mission sequence (prior incorporation of the Finish penetrators and the Chinese micro orbiter) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0cUvK0Dgy8JonJon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Cheers Jon,Can you say hello to your friend for me. Sounds like an interesting person.Yes, I can see your concerns regarding Phobos-Grunt. The fact the ESA is involved IMO, chances of success have soared, as they are getting pretty good at this sort of thing & unlike Beagle 2, I'm sure the ESA part will be funded properly & they will ensure that PhobosGrunt is properly tested prior to launch (hope so anyway).But as you say, it does remain to be seen if does return anything of use. I must admit, I would have a lot happier if it was either a NASA / ESA or a JAXA / ESA or a NASA / JAXA mission. I wonder if it would be possible for the Mars Odyssey Orbiter to swing by Phobos & use the THEMIS to obtain IR data? The THEMIS would really give a good chemical breakdown of Phobos's surface & see if it bears any resemblance to the Kaidun Meteorite.I suspect Odyssey is tied up relaying data from the MERs & the upcoming Phoenix, so perhaps no, as that is already a too important role to pass up.Just thinking of ideas in the meantime. Further MRO HiRISE observations would help, with Mars being in a different position around the Sun, so the illumination would be different & ESA have said that the Mars Express is to make further observations.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Search

Kaidun Meteorite. A piece of Phobos??

3488

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

3488

Guest

JonClarke

Guest

3488

Guest

JonClarke

Guest

3488

Guest

JonClarke

Guest

3488

Guest

Similar threads

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Share this page