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darkmatter4brains

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Re: LHC Status

yes, this is something newer. I'll have to dig around some more and see if I can't find it again.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Re: LHC Status

Thanx for the article. I didn't see anything there that terribly surprised me, but I'm a pragmatist :)

Anyone who expected a machine this large, complex, and powerful to come up to full power on time would have to be an optimist!

It does flesh out a bit more detail about the reality of the situation, I appreciate the info.

Wayne
 
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nimbus

Guest
Re: LHC Status

darkmatter4brains":1lsgjau7 said:
Here's that article. Not too sure what to make of it, as it seems to contradict things. But it does seem to imply that even if that thing turns on in Nov, it could be a while till it's at an energy that is anything new really.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/scien ... 1&emc=eta1
"“It’s not the design energy of the machine, but it’s 4 times higher than the Tevatron,” he said."

NewScientist article on this says that the LHC is expected to run at 7 TeV and the old projected 14 TeV in 1-3 years. So that's "something new".
 
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darkmatter4brains

Guest
Re: LHC Status

Another article on the LHC I came across:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090809/ap_ ... ng_machine

Seems like the media has it out for the LHC right now.

As Nimbus pointed out above and I didn't realize earlier, even though it comes on at half energy in Nov, that will still be at least 3.5 times more powerful than the Tevatron. Sweet!
 
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nimbus

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Re: LHC Status

It's just such a monumental instrument, and it's been nothing but a let down in the public's point of view. No doubt it makes excellent fodder for bad press.
 
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CommonMan

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Re: L H C almost ready for operation

Just what are they trying to find? They spent A LOT of money on this, so they must be pretty sure of finding something. But what? I watched a show about it but I am still not sure. Some say they will find what they call the Higgs boson particle or GOD particle.
Also they say they are trying to prove if there are extra dimensions, dark matter, and some other things. My question is, if they do find it, what are they going to DO with it?
 
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cosmictraveler

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Re: L H C almost ready for operation

CommonMan":2mbb7duk said:
Just what are they trying to find? They spent A LOT of money on this, so they must be pretty sure of finding something. But what? I watched a show about it but I am still not sure. Some say they will find what they call the Higgs boson particle or GOD particle.
Also they say they are trying to prove if there are extra dimensions, dark matter, and some other things. My question is, if they do find it, what are they going to DO with it?
They are trying to understand just how the universe works. In solving complex problems about how the universe works they can then use that knowledge to better humanity as well advance the data bases about all physics. Your MRI, CAT scan , and other nuclear medicine all came from physics as well as many other things like atomic energy that makes electricity. Imagine if they find out how fusion is happening so that they could make a fusion generator of electricity for humanity that could be an endless power source .
 
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MeteorWayne

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Re: L H C almost ready for operation

I will merge this into the existing LHC thread in the Physics forum later today.
 
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bdewoody

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The LHC When are they going to fire it up?

Isn't this the month that they are upposed to start the grand experiment? I can'y seem to find much up to date news about the big event.
 
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darkmatter4brains

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Re: The LHC When are they going to fire it up?

bdewoody":jri7e04h said:
Isn't this the month that they are upposed to start the grand experiment? I can'y seem to find much up to date news about the big event.
Last I heard they were going to start up in Oct, but the half power runs won't be until Nov. But that's from two months ago or so.

I hope they turn it on soon - the anticipation is killing me! :x

If you google LHC you should be able to quickly find the main LHC site, which has some news/updates.

Also, search LHC on youtube. There was a semi-official news stream on there that had an update each month roughly.
 
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harper05

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Re: LHC Status

Good news for the LHC :) = sad news for the tevatron, :( as it is expected to cease opperations in 2010 made obsolete by the lhc. My aunt and uncle were employed there briefly, and observed the discovery of the top quark! They went to work for the naval weopons center in Ridgecrest, ca. I wonder were all of the other tevatronians are going? Probably LHC...
 
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Astro_Robert

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Re: LHC Status

I had thought that with all of its upgrades the Tevatron was actually currently running at 2T, which might still be half of short term power at LHC, but not a mere quarter. But I do think shutting Tevatron down, regardless in the power level differential, is a shame. There must be some good science that can still come from the beams it can deliver. And anyway, I wouldn't think all science experiments would require LHC energy levels.

Disclosure: I was a big fan of SSC, and was bummed at Clinton for torpedoing it.
 
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SpeedFreek

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Re: Time Dilation and Absolute Age of the Universe

darkmatter4brains":3psprt34 said:
On the other hand, if they find out Higgs particles (and their associated fields) don't exist, well ...... :shock: ;)
I was under the impression that the LHC was only able to test the lower regions of the energy range where we might find the Higgs?
 
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harper05

Guest
Re: Time Dilation and Absolute Age of the Universe

CDF and DZero, at fermilab may actually find the higgs before lhc.
the cdf expirement is helping to zero in on the Higgs mass through its relationship to the top quark, while the Dzero is involved in the direct search for the Higgs, and in analyzing the combined dataset from both experiments.

Tevatron has an energy of about 2 TeV (two trillion electron volts, the combined energy of both counter-rotating beams), is the world’s most powerful accelerator. (until the LHC comes online)

By combining their results the teams have effectively doubled the amount of data in their search. The result is that they have established that the Higgs will almost certainly not be found – the chances are less than one in twenty – lying within the mass/energy range between 160 and 170 GeV/c2.

Earlier results from CERN’s LEPC established that the Higgs must “weigh” more than 114 GeV, and theoretical calculations supported by observation indicate the Higgs must weigh less than 185 GeV. Thus the mass/energy range excluded by the new analysis takes a big bite out of the upper end of the search range.

(Because mass and energy are equivalent, as expressed by E=mc2, particle masses are written as their energy in electron volts, divided by the speed of light squared; the speed-of-light term is often omitted for convenience).

The new constraints on the likely mass of the Higgs announced by CDF and DZero change how the Higgs will be seen and the possibility that it could be found at Fermilab!

At low mass, the Higgs involves finding b-bbar pairs, referring to the bottom quark, b, and the antibottom quark, bbar; the more likely route for a higher mass Higgs would be to decay via two W bosons. In the lower mass region, there is a lot of background from other events, clouding the data..

And in this low mass region, it may be more difficult for the LHC, It will have to run longer to sort through all the data. and with th improved methods, and the doubling of the dataset, the Tevatron has a better than one-in-three chance to find it, and it keeps getting better. The Tevatron is running great! But by the end of 2010, the LHC may have enough data to make the big discovery.

Way off topic sorry Mods. :)
 
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harper05

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Re: LHC Status

Me too, they are renting plots of the ssc tunnel for storage :( :( .

Lots of good science can come from the tevetron! In fact with the cdf and dzero experiments at fermilab they are computationally better at analyzing data than lhc, and because of that have a pretty good chance, 1 in 3, of finding the higgs at lower energy levels, where lhc will have a harder time.

I think its more a matter of budget cuts than anything else that will spell its demise. There is never enough money for science.. At least in the USA
 
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MeteorWayne

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Re: LHC Status

I moved two posts from another topic to this one where they seem to fit better.

That makes them on topic harper05; thanx for the VERY informative post!

MW
 
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doom_shepherd

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Re: L H C almost ready for operation

cosmictraveler":1mwptodb said:
Imagine if they find out how fusion is happening so that they could make a fusion generator of electricity for humanity that could be an endless power source .
*Looks skywards*

Hey, I can see one of those right now! Whup, it's setting... ;)

Yeah, I like exotic experiments. I just hope we can learn enough to actually make use of the stuff we learn. I mean, it's no good knowing we can have infinte clean energy if we just hypermodulate the frammistan particles with the somethininium, if we can't make somethininium without blowing up the sun. We kind of NEED it.
 
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ittiz

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Re: LHC Status

harper05":3guni69x said:
I think its more a matter of budget cuts than anything else that will spell its demise. There is never enough money for science.. At least in the USA

I don't know about physics research but I work in the Biotech industry is there are boat loads more money for research in the US. I've talked to people who did research in both Europe and the US and they say money is way easier to get here. I think the problem with colliders is building really big ones cost so much only governments have the money to pay for it. And it's hard to get congress to agree to pay billions of dollars to find a few particles. Especially when all they care about is their pet projects and have no real understanding of physics.
 
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harper05

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Re: LHC Status

I agree ittiz, good point, however the money is lacking in astronomy and physics, at least for my taste.
My sister is working on her phd at usf in biophysics. She and her team have isolated the proteins capable of growing artificial retinas from scratch!! Very cool stuff
 
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Oxize

Guest
Re: LHC Status

LHC "bird-bread" strike


On Tuesday 3 November, a bird carrying a baguette bread caused a short
circuit in an electrical outdoor installation that serves sectors 7-8 and
8-1 of the LHC. The knock-on effects included an interruption to the
operation of the LHC cryogenics system. The bird escaped unharmed but
lost its bread.

The standard failsafe systems came into operation and after the cause
was identified, re-cooling of the machine began and the sectors were
back at operating temperature last night. The incident was similar in
effect to a standard power cut, for which the machine protection systems
are very well prepared.

(c) Cern
http://user.web.cern.ch/user/news/2009/091106b.html

How the hell a bird can fly into the LHC ring? Though those area's are verry restriced even at sector 7-8. Anyway, its running again. Hope it dont delay to much.
 
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