MSFC confirm PAL Ramp Liberation was a repair area

[shuttle_rtf]

Just in...<br /><br />June Malone, a spokeswoman for Marshall Space Flight Center, has confirmed a repair was carried out at MAF in the exact area of where PAL Ramp foam liberated just after SRB sep during assent on STS-114.<br /><br />Evaluations are going via the Tiger Team to confirm said repair areas are either inherently a problem for potential shedding, or that the repair was imperfect.<br /><br />Safe to assume that if it was a "bad repair" - fingers can point at that and if everyone is happy - bar those that may get sacked over it <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> - and we go fly again.

 

[thechemist]

Someone give this guy the Space Pullitzer at once <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br />Way to go Shuttle_RTF ! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[drwayne]

I wonder what the stats are for the number of tanks that have a repair area somewhere on them?<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

A good question, and that's what is going on now.<br /><br />There are engineers going through NCDs (non-conformance documents) on this very issue.<br /><br />Remember the current state of play is:<br /><br />ET-119 (Discovery STS-115) is being sent back to MAF<br /><br />ET-118 is going to be following soon after for a repair to support STS-301 (Discovery) requirements to STS-121 (Atlantis).<br /><br />ET-120 stays with Atlantis in the VAB for rollout to the pad for an APU hot fire test - STS-121 flow continues - under order of Wayne Hale. <br /><br />Then we can maybe assume that Atlantis rolls back and is de-mated, placed on an ET that MAF send with no repair work undergone - shoot for the November window. Maybe ET-120 gets a green light to stay with STS-121. Maybe they'll de-stack and put chicken wire mesh installed over the PAL Ramp to be sure nothing falls off.<br /><br />(Note I said assume, guess, who am I to know etc.)

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"I wonder what the stats are..."</font><br /><br />Unfortunately, a relatively meaningless stat... even if we had it. What would make be a meaningful stat would be to know what the relative shedding occurance is on repaired sections of foam vs unrepaired. What I would propose (do you have a suggestion box near your desk, S_G?) would be that all repaired areas of foam should have a circle of paint drawn around them on future flights. Then the ET launch imagery can be used to determine just how often foam is being shed from these areas as opposed to unrepaired ones.

 

[mrmorris]

SG -- I haven't seen anything regarding flight data from the accelerometers that were put in the wings of the shuttle? Do you know if they recorded any impact data?

 

[shuttle_rtf]

Thanks for the presser, that will sure be interesting.

 

[john_316]

<br />Hey S_G what is the status of Endeavour? I havent heard much on her lately... <br /><br />I hope Atlantis will make the September flight.<br /><br />Has there been any activity as the KSC on the CEV project at all? Anything new other than pad breakups? I heard they are reburbishing some more pads? Any truth to those rumours?<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">We still have the # or 4 other sites where un-acceptable foam was shead, other than the PAL site.</font>/i><br /><br />It seems to me the space shuttle system is fundamentally flawed: a delicate orbiter is placed downstream from shedding foam (which by NASA's admission, cannot be fully fixed).<br /><br />Further, it seems there are three options:<br />(1) Suspend shuttle flights until all sources of major foam debris is solved.<br />(2) Suspend shuttle flights until the source of the largest foam debris is solved and accept the rest as part of the risk of flying.<br />(3) Shutdown the space shuttle system.<br /><br />Given that shuttle flights are to be halted by 2010, and that option (1) may take 1-2 years, options (1) and (3) are pretty much the same. In other words, if the goal is to stop all foam shedding that is larger than their original target size, then the time delay would probably result in a huge cry to halt the shuttle program.<br /><br />Thus, if the goal is to return the shuttle to flight instead of retire it immediately, it seems that resolving only the largest of the foam debris can be reasonably accomplished.</i>

 

[drwayne]

Or continue as is, with extensive orbital inspection.<br /><br />(I posted a thread on this a week or two ago)<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

Totally agree with that sentiment.<br /><br />MAF staff reducement has started today. All the shoppers (temp staff, usually retired former MAF brought back in temp on high pay but no benefits) had a sudden "don't come back tomorrow" notice (at least one has complained).<br /><br /><br />Can you confirm this as well SG?<br /><br />Person talking about the need to work on the ET on the horizontal at MAF: />.....boosters will be coming down for de-stack because of 'shelf life' expiration around end of Nov<<br /><br />I wasn't aware of a shelf life, is that about right?

 

[shuttle_rtf]

Thanks SG, I'm going blind in my old age <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[haywood]

SG...why does an SRB "time out"?<br />

 

[drwayne]

In a motor casting that big, it would seem like they would be looing for what I will call somewhat loosely "settling effects"<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Or continue as is, with extensive orbital inspection.</font>/i><br /><br />Yes, it was a good thread; however, given recent statements by Griffin, Hale, Commander Collins, and others, flying with "no changes" will not be politically acceptable anymore. Something must be changed.<br /><br />However, given evidence that the largest foam chunk may been due to later changes to the tank (e.g., to fix a dent, or whatever), minimal changes could be to declare that fixing process unacceptable in the future. In other words "something" must be done given words that have been said, but that "something" may be quite minimal.<br /><br />Given the widespread sentiment in virtually all the media (NY Times, WSJ, CNN, etc.), a long downtime for an extensive fix is probably off the table now. That was my primary point.</i>

 

[drwayne]

I understand exactly what you are saying, and the fact of the matter is that I think you are absolutely correct in your assessment of both the environment created by the statements, and the process for dealing with it if we want to get the show on the road inside of a year.<br /><br />Wayne<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[steve82]

Now that would be a luau! An expired SRB, a big pit, and a few of those wild pigs they have running about at KSC! (Could throw in a little alligator meat too).

 

[gawin]

just thought you all might like to see a photo of what happens when you take 4000lbs of solid rocket propelent stack it up into a pile in the middle of the deserid and light it up.<br /><br />http://www.desertblast.org/<br /><br /> also like to mention the huge are of desert sand that is turned to glass from the heat it generates. it was definitly one of the most memorable sights i have ever seen.<br /><br />gawin<br /><br /><br />

 

[steve82]

"The Woodstock of Pyrotechnics"<br /><br />I love it!

 

[shuttle_rtf]

Sources: PAL Ramps to be removed from all ETs.

 

[nacnud]

Any idea of a time scale?

 

[nacnud]

So thats another 4-6 flights less to the ISS before Shuttle retirement <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" />. I realy hope that the SRB cargo version can be brought to bare on the short fall. <br /><br />Lets hope the fix goes quick and painless.<br /><br />

 

[shuttle_rtf]

As SG said....for the quote from Gerstenmaier: "We will probably not make the September launch window," is under-statement of the year.<br />

 

[shuttle_rtf]

I've always believed that the best way to honour the crews of Challenger and Columbia was to keep flying. The balance is only pulled back if it's at an unacceptable risk to future crews.<br /><br />I don't know. Just my opinion for what it's worth..which is not a lot.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">I've always believed that the best way to honour the crews of Challenger and Columbia was to keep flying.</font>/i><br /><br />The same argument was used in Vietnam and now Iraq. Once blood money has been paid, there is a feeling of obligation.</i>