mystery rock

[dgm1]

Kelleygirl, it is curious that you are afraid to freeze it or really subject it heat either but you are leaning towards it's origin in space.<br /> It would have experienced much greater cold in space then you could subject it to and the heat of entry into the atmosphere could not be recreated with a table torch.<br /> You really need to get this thing to some one trained to identify such things. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

The fingernail scratch test rules out a lot of soft stuff. I'm starting to lean away from glass now.<br /><br />You may want to try scratching it with harder stuff than fingernails -- or try using the mystery rock to scratch something else, if you're nervous about marring its surface.<br /><br />Try scratching a pane of glass with it. If you feel confident enough, go ahead and scratch the rock with glass as well. If it scratches glass but glass won't scratch it, you'll have pretty much ruled out glass. It's a basic hardness test.<br /><br />Here's a website discussing hardness tests. According to that website, fingernails have a hardness of 2.5, so your mystery rock is harder than that. A penny has a hardness of 3, and it says that most steel blades have a hardness of 5.5, so doing scratch tests with them should narrow things down a bit more for you.<br /><br />To find out what the purple liquid is, I'm afraid you'll have to resign yourself to doing some more aggressive -- and possibly destructive -- testing. Freezing it probably won't hurt it, though. There's an air bubble in there, so if it's water, there's room for it to expand. (Most liquids contract when they freeze, but water actually expands instead.) I'd go ahead and stick it in your freezer overnight to see if it freezes. If it doesn't, that's very interesting indeed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[dgm1]

She said they tried the glass scratch test and it did lightly scratch the glass with applied pressure. <br /> It is interesting and i wish she would take it to the proper people to identify it. I am genuinely interested in finding out what it is. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rlb2]

It looks as Jatslo pointed out, like Quarts see images below, however glass slag shouldn't be ruled out. The only problem I would see is the circular mark on it looks like it was human made.<br /> <br />http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/quartz/quartz.htm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[kellygirl29]

Um.........What circular mark? I dont think it is man made. But, what do I know. I sent out about 20 emails this weekend to people who test fluid inclusions. Now, Ive gotta pick which place to send it too.

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Um.........What circular mark?<font color="white"><br /><br />This one - see image below.<br /><br />After sharpening the image a bit it sure does look like something that came from the earth expect for the radius circular indentation.<br /></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[dgm1]

That is a conchoidal fracture. It is the result of the object being struck. Probably by the farm plow. It is common on arrowheads found in plowed fields. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[silylene old]

I am reposting this from another forum, where Kellygirl29 had also posted about this "rock", and I gave her this response 8 days ago (in addition to other requests to her asking for a scratch test). I added more links/pictures for this post.<br /><br />Here are 3 interesting links about quartz with liquid inclusions in it - called "enhydros". It sounds like what you might have found.<br /><br />http://www.gamineral.org/enhydros.html<br />click here<br />click here<br /><br />If you do a google 'images' search on "enhydros", you can find about 25 pictures on the web.<br /><br />I also found 33 enhydros for sale on ebay, with prices ranging from $12 to $80. The $80 specimen was particularly nice, and reminiscent of Kelly's:<br />click here<br /><br /><br />They also suggest checking to see if the mineral, or the fluid inclusion flouresces. I think that's a good idea - do you have a black light? <br /><br />[URLs shortened for bet <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Interesting. I hever heard of fluorescence in fluid inclusions. Any idea what might cause it? Organic gases? salt crystals?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[dgm1]

Nice work silylene.<br /> Her specimen seems to lack the notable "crystal structure of the more obvious quartz example which iswhy i thought it to be a type of glass cast off or something. I suppose it is possible it had the traditional crystal "look at one time but became smoot and rounded by river tumbling.<br /> The tear drop shape of the inclusion leads me away from the quartz ID because it would have needed to be molten at the time it formed to create that shape. Quartz crystals do not form like that from the molten material. The process timing would not be right. That is my opinion only and based on what i know of quartz and similar minerals. I wish kellygiirl would get this ID'd and let us in on the findings! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

It certainly could be rounded from some previous shape. The tear drop shape of the inclusion to me suggests that it is more likely a failed glass blowing attempt. Including inclusions can be many shapes, but are rarely tear drops. Mind you, I have never seen one this size either. The ones I know are a few 10's of microns across (most quartz is white because of the scattering of light from thousands of micron scale fluid inclusions).<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

Yeah, but that liquid in the tear drop turns me off to geological processes. I can see where a bubble would form, but I don't see that bubble encapsulating fluid. The color purple is not unusual at all, but the fluid is.

 

[jatslo]

<b>Analysis of fossil fluids and gases from tiny time capsules</b><br /><br />A great many ore-deposit models are tied to the cause of formation of the deposit. Questions about the environmental conditions related to formation of the deposit are temperature, pressure, source of the metals, and composition of any fluids and gases that transported and formed the ore or associated minerals.<br /><br />Many crystals in the Earth s crust have formed in some kind of fluid. Small quantities of the fluid that surrounded the crystals during growth are commonly trapped as tiny fluid inclusions within these crystals. In many cases, these fluid inclusions are less than 0.1 mm but record important information about the conditions when the ore was being formed. <br /><br />Trapped in a time capsule the same size as the diameter of a human hair, the ore-forming liquid in this inclusion was so hot and contained so much dissolved solids that when it cooled, crystals of halite, sylvite, gypsum, and hematite formed. As the samples cooled, the fluid shrank more than the surrounding mineral, and created a vapor bubble. Heating the inclusion to the temperature at which the bubble is reabsorbed and daughter crystals dissolve gives an estimate of the minimum temperature at the moment of ore formation. [47k] [160k]<br /><br />Current understanding of movements within continents reveals that throughout the Earth s history periods of large-scale fluid movements occurred in the Earth s crust. Some of these fluid migrations resulted in the deposition of metallic ore deposits and accumulations of oil and gas. <br /><br />Characteristics of fluid inclusions are extremely variable. In the simplest case, when fluid inclusions cool from the elevated temperature at which they formed, the liquid shrinks and separates into a liquid and a vapor bubble. Detailed microthermometric studies give a reasonable estimate of the temperature at which the mineral was formed. Studies of this type reveal that the inclusions w

 

[jatslo]

You see; that bubble is huge compared to the average bubble. Possible though, and very rare, which increases its value. Also, there is way too much water in that bubble; it should of condensed down to a fraction of the total volume. Maybe there is a crack, and it filled with water that way, but if this were the case, then you could shake the crystal violently and the water would leak out. <--- The old shake out the water test. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[silylene old]

<font color="yellow">Interesting. I hever heard of fluorescence in fluid inclusions. Any idea what might cause it? Organic gases? salt crystals? </font><br /><br />Neither have I! I am speaking as a chemist I would do this non-desrtuctive test, if faced with this question. You never know, if you don't look.<br /><br />Many organic liquids flouresce, with characteristic "fingerprint" spectra.<br /><br />If the "mystery rock" was a plastic, and leached plasticizer, inhibitor or UV stabilizer molecules into the fluid, these have very characteristic flourescence spectra (especially stabilizers).<br /><br />Finally, some types of dissolved inorganic compounds flouresce in solution, especially if they have the right ligand. <br /><br />I asked her to do scratch tests in the other forum, and gave a nice link on methods. But she never reported back any results. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[kellygirl29]

Jatslo, Thank you for that article. Ive been reading alot about fluid inclusions since I first heard of them on this forum and read that article that you posted. The part about the liquid being very small amounts is what intrigues me the most about my rock, since mine has alot in it. And my rock is sealed completely up, no shakin the liquid out of this baby!

 

[silylene old]

Kelly, yours has a much bigger liquid inclusion in it than the $80 rock on ebay that I linked. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[kellygirl29]

Silyene, Thank you for the links on how to do a scratch test. Im going to do one but havent yet because I have it in a saftey deposit box for now and havent had a chance to get it. But I will first thing in the morning. I'll let you know the results. As far as freezing it, I would rather wait and let someone extact the fluid. That would be horrible if I froze it, and it busted, and all of the fluid ran out. Then I would never know what it was. I know yall have said that it probably wouldnt hurt it because it has room to expand, but that tear chamber in there looks awfully thin and fragile. Ecspecially since there is a metal fleck barely piercing it.

 

[jatslo]

You should see if the metallic inclusions and/or purple tint is florescent, because that would increase value as well. Also, if this is a native specimen, then there are more; guaranteed, and each one is precious, or worth something. In addition, If you know how to sculpt, you can increase its value even more.

 

[jatslo]

That one you linked on ebay has not met the minimum requirement for bids, and is way cool too. Looks like a big ice cube. Crystals are mystical, and desired by paranormal folks of the sort, just to name one.

 

[silylene old]

Jatslo, I considered buying that $80 crystal with the water inclusions. It is big and very beautiful. But my wife would kill me - she is still not that pleased that I spent $600 buying myself a few very nice fossils off ebay for Christmas.<br /><br />But maybe I can talk her into it.....!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[jatslo]

I was thinking of sculpting mystical critters, mounting a strategically place crystal, wire up some light effects, and sell them retail, or auction them off as art. I think you should buy it, because you could certainly make your money back, if you can apply your imagination to enhance its value somehow. Your wife might see this as an investment opportunity too. 500% profit is quite possible.

 

[dgm1]

Keelygirl, if you went through the trouble of securing the item in a safety deposit box then you must be assuming it to be valuable. If that is the case then I would suggest you make the journey to a suitable institution to have the testing done rather than do it yourself. <br /> I seriously doubt freezing would have any detrimental effects whatsoever. If you found it on the surface of a Tennessee farm field then it has undoubtedly been frozen naturally at some point. <br /> Still, as you fear, any damage would render it valueless if it is indeed more than normal glass. Why the reluctance to take it to some one able to identify it. I have taken many field finds to museums or universities to be ID'd. They are always very glad to see what is brought in and offer any help they can. Also, I have never had to pay for any help they offered. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Nice summary of FI's you posted. The problem with very large FIs is that they do leak along hairline fractures and the fluids they contain are not primary.<br /><br />However the presence of a gas bubble in Kellygirls example suggests that the fluid was trapped at an elevated temperature and then condensed. The small size of the bubble suggests the temperature was low. Another test that could be tried is placing it in water and stepwise heating it up to 100 degrees. If the bubble has not leaked and it was originally not a two phase, The temperature the bubble disappears at should be the trapping temperature.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I've done some reading too, the petroleum industry uses fluorescence of inclusions to map hydrocarbons. Explains why I had not heard of it as well- the FI work I've done has all been in connection with mineral systems which go to much higher temperature (the lab I used to run could go to 600 degrees, the temperature at which quartz starts to go plastic and the practical limit of FI studies).<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>