NASA LaRC tour

[Swampcat]

<p>A fellow member of my local NAR section is a branch head at NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia and put together a tour of the facilities for club members. The tour included the fabrication area where some components for the upcoming Ares I-X mission are being assembled, primarily the Launch Abort System, or LAS. There is also an Orion Command Module and heat shield boilerplate test articles.</p><p>All in all, we visited Rapid Prototyping, Modeling, Machine Shop, Electronics Labs (where we got a demonstration of a robotic vehicle and a detailed explanation of flight hardware for an upcoming Wallops Island mission), the hangar where aeronautics research is performed (this is the same hangar where Gemini and Apollo crews practiced rendezvous) and the Lunar Lander test area.</p><p>Unfortunately, I didn't get a lot of pictures as my ancient digital camera decided today was a good day to die.</p><p>The tour was very informative and I came away with a lot more respect (and envy) for the people that work there. I'm also hoping to hear from one of the co-ops in the robotics area with some videos that I suggested they send me so I could put them on YouTube.</p><p>Anyway, just thought I'd share what was a very interesting day.</p><p><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/11/fcb46a69-434a-403f-ab0e-b162b577c6e8.Medium.jpg" alt="" /><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/6/117b11a0-c2d7-459f-96bd-9f909b413903.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p>BTW, mods, feel free to put this thread in a more appropriate forum if necessary.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Cool!&nbsp; Wht did you see of the Orion LAS? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Cool!&nbsp; Wht did you see of the Orion LAS? <br />Posted by jonclarke</DIV><br /><br />Hi, Jon. Yes, it was very cool. I had never been that close to actual NASA flight hardware before and it was like being a kid in a candy store.</p><p>The top picture I posted was of the Ares I-X LAS. It was sitting on its transport trailer while being fabricated there. They were still working on the nose end of it with&nbsp;the last cylindrical&nbsp;section ready to add while technicians were working on finishing up the nose cap which was unpainted. We were able to walk around the LAS and the Orion boilerplate. I even got to stand inside the Command Module. Of course, there's not much inside since it is essentially only a mass simulator at this point.</p><p>The image below is a view of the LAS from the aft end:</p><p><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/4/3/84faca36-06cf-4b3b-9340-cfeb11a81d98.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p>And this next image is of the nozzles:</p><p><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/0/f6c1dd2d-71f9-4124-b0aa-3e96b3602f3b.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p>Just below the LAS you can see a couple of technicians who were working on the nose cap.</p><p>Of course this particular LAS article will not actually be&nbsp;active so it does not have a lot of the guts needed to make it do its thing. As it was explained to me, the Ares I-X flight is mostly for testing of the aerodynamics of the outer moldline and overall structure of the Ares I vehicle. We talked to two engineers who are responsible for the sensor suite on the vehicle and basically what they're trying to do is see if the data they're getting from their models matches data from the actual vehicle.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p>There is nothing quite like the phyisical reality of actual hardware!&nbsp; Especially harware as significant and this.</p><p>if you have any other images please post them.</p><p>cheers</p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<strong>The size of the LAS compared to the technicians is awsome.&nbsp; But, I wonder, once they get Ares 1 up and running,&nbsp;would Nasa ever consider removing the LAS?&nbsp; It might save a lot of mass.&nbsp; SRB's are pretty safe now, and the 2nd stage, if it didn't ignite, they could just use the SM and Orion capsule to abort?</strong><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p>I saw a story on the rapid prototyping facility on NASA TV one time. Absolutely mazing...</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[trailrider]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The size of the LAS compared to the technicians is awsome.&nbsp; But, I wonder, once they get Ares 1 up and running,&nbsp;would Nasa ever consider removing the LAS?&nbsp; It might save a lot of mass.&nbsp; SRB's are pretty safe now, and the 2nd stage, if it didn't ignite, they could just use the SM and Orion capsule to abort? <br />Posted by kyle_baron</DIV><br /><br />YOU ride that firecracker without a LAS! "SRB's are pretty safe now..."&nbsp; NO solid rockets are "safe", and liquids can be dicey, as well.&nbsp; Rather than cutting corners, saving weight, etc., why don't we build bigger, more reliable LIQUID boosters?!</p><p>Let's hope that the Obama Administration and Congress will give NASA enough funding to "do it right"!</p>

 

[JonClarke]

I suspect we will have to demonstrate reliabilities of thousands of launches between failures before anyone thinks of dispensing with LAS ever again. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>YOU ride that firecracker without a LAS!</DIV></p><p><strong>I would do it!!!&nbsp; Do you think I'm a "Scardy Cat"?&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /></strong></p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;"SRB's are pretty safe now..."&nbsp; NO solid rockets are "safe"[/QUOTE} </p><p><strong>Even when Challenger exploded, it's SRB was gushing flames out the side, and it didn't explode!!!</strong></p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;and liquids can be dicey, as well.&nbsp; Rather than cutting corners, saving weight, etc., why don't we build bigger, more reliable LIQUID boosters?!</DIV></p><p><strong>Because they're not as simple as SRB's.&nbsp; As you said, they're like a controlable firecracker!</strong></p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Let's hope that the Obama Administration and Congress will give NASA enough funding to "do it right"! <br />Posted by trailrider</DIV></p><p><strong>Amen to that, Brother.</strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<strong>Ok, this is a crazy idea even by my low standards.&nbsp; But,&nbsp;if the LAS isn't needed, why not fire it, when&nbsp;attached to the Orion, and use this wasted thrust?&nbsp; The LAS thrust is 500,000 lbs. for 3-5 seconds.&nbsp; The J2X on the 2nd stage is 294,000 lbs.&nbsp; Once in orbit, just release it, and let it float away.&nbsp; I'm wondering how much additional Delta V would be added, with this crazy scenario?</strong><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[rybanis]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Ok, this is a crazy idea even by my low standards.&nbsp; But,&nbsp;if the LAS isn't needed, why not fire it, when&nbsp;attached to the Orion, and use this wasted thrust?&nbsp; The LAS thrust is 500,000 lbs. for 3-5 seconds.&nbsp; The J2X on the 2nd stage is 294,000 lbs.&nbsp; Once in orbit, just release it, and let it float away.&nbsp; I'm wondering how much additional Delta V would be added, with this crazy scenario? <br /> Posted by kyle_baron</DIV></p><p>I would think the stresses on the capsule/service module would be too much. Also that'd put a lot of strain on the crew... </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Ok, this is a crazy idea even by my low standards.&nbsp; But,&nbsp;if the LAS isn't needed, why not fire it, when&nbsp;attached to the Orion, and use this wasted thrust?&nbsp; The LAS thrust is 500,000 lbs. for 3-5 seconds.&nbsp; The J2X on the 2nd stage is 294,000 lbs.&nbsp; Once in orbit, just release it, and let it float away.&nbsp; I'm wondering how much additional Delta V would be added, with this crazy scenario? <br />Posted by kyle_baron</DIV></p><p>LAS systems are dumped well before orbit.</p><p>Jon<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I would think the stresses on the capsule/service module would be too much.</DIV></p><p><strong>The LAS is jettisoned at 300,000 ft. or 57miles, or just after the 2nd stage ignition.&nbsp; I'm saying (maybe) wait until the 2nd stage is almost empty and ignite it, or as you implied, ignite it just after SM ignition.&nbsp; All we're doing is adding acceleration.&nbsp; With more mass in the stack, there is less acceleration.&nbsp; </strong></p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Also that'd put a lot of strain on the crew... <br />Posted by rybanis</DIV></p><p><strong>Absolutly correct.&nbsp; I heard wild estimates of around 20 G's experienced&nbsp; by the crew with a normal abort, with the capsule which weighs 19,000 lbs.&nbsp; But if you add a service module (8,000 lbs. + propellent 18,000 lbs.) the G force has to drop considerably.&nbsp; Not to mention a nearly empty 2nd stage which is 30,000 lbs.</strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>LAS systems are dumped well before orbit.Jon <br />Posted by jonclarke</DIV></p><p><strong>That's the standard Apollo conventional thinking.&nbsp; Ares 1 is not conventional.&nbsp; We have to start thinking "outside the box".&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/15/476cee89-34af-466a-8f28-1eb4839b9091.Medium.gif" alt="" /><br /><br /></strong><br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That's the standard Apollo conventional thinking.&nbsp; Ares 1 is not conventional.&nbsp; We have to start thinking "outside the box".&nbsp; <br />Posted by kyle_baron</DIV></p><p>Inn many cases the box is there for a very good reason.&nbsp; Why reinvent the wheel.&nbsp; Different LAS systems have been investigated, people keep coming back to the tower idea.</p><p>Remember the LAS is severely optimised for one role.&nbsp; It would be difficult to adapt it for any other function without. degrading that role.</p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Inn many cases the box is there for a very good reason.&nbsp; Why reinvent the wheel.</DIV></p><p><strong>Because the wheel isn't turning fast enough.&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/7/fb93a240-4e12-4728-b7a2-79f89e59db18.Medium.gif" alt="" />&nbsp; IIRC, Ares 1 is in a highly elliptical suborbital trajectory.&nbsp; It would take 3 days to get to the ISS, and it has no toilet!<br /><br /></strong>&nbsp;</p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Remember the LAS is severely optimised for one role.&nbsp; It would be difficult to adapt it for any other function without. degrading that role.Jon <br />Posted by jonclarke</DIV></p><p><strong>Not at all. It's ready to go, with little or no additional modifications.&nbsp; The only question is, when to fire it.&nbsp; And let's face it, it's hardly ever going to be used, for what it was originally intended.&nbsp; I was reading yesterday at NasaSpaceflight.com, &nbsp;that it has line charges (explosives) that can easily break it apart.&nbsp; There was also a nice diagram in the Direct 2 thread of the LAS with it's cover.&nbsp; But, I was unable to cut and paste it here.</strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<strong>So, are we all in agreement, that Nasa should use the LAS thrust (LAST) as a 4th stage, to boost the Orion into a circular orbit?&nbsp; With all this extra thrust, maybe Nasa can put in a toilet, and air bags for landing on land.&nbsp; Along with anything else that they stripped from the original Orion.</strong><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Because the wheel isn't turning fast enough.&nbsp; &nbsp; IIRC, Ares 1 is in a highly elliptical suborbital trajectory.&nbsp; It would take 3 days to get to the ISS, and it has no toilet!&nbsp;Not at all. It's ready to go, with little or no additional modifications.&nbsp; The only question is, when to fire it.&nbsp; And let's face it, it's hardly ever going to be used, for what it was originally intended.&nbsp; I was reading yesterday at NasaSpaceflight.com, &nbsp;that it has line charges (explosives) that can easily break it apart.&nbsp; There was also a nice diagram in the Direct 2 thread of the LAS with it's cover.&nbsp; But, I was unable to cut and paste it here. <br />Posted by kyle_baron</DIV></p><p>I don't think you quite understand what you are asking here.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<strong>I think that I need some constructive criticizim.&nbsp; I thought I'd never say this, but, where's Dr. Rocket?&nbsp; I wonder if he knows the Delta V, with the numbers I've provided?</strong><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I think that I need some constructive criticizim.&nbsp; I thought I'd never say this, but, where's Dr. Rocket?&nbsp; I wonder if he knows the Delta V, with the numbers I've provided? <br />Posted by kyle_baron</DIV></p><p><strong>Never mind, I figured it out myself.&nbsp; To circularize the orbit, the SM needs to have 62m/sec. (186 ft./sec.) Delta V.&nbsp; From another website, it stated that when aborted, the Orion is traveling 600 mph in 6,000 ft.&nbsp; I cut that figure in half, since it didn't include the SM.&nbsp; Therefore, 300 mph is 440 ft./sec.(approx)&nbsp; Therefore,&nbsp; just using the LAS thrust, provides twice the Delta V needed to circularize the orbit.&nbsp; Please keep in mind, that these are very rough figures, and that&nbsp;I'm not a PROFESSIONAL ROCKET SCIENTIST.&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" />&nbsp;</strong></p><p><strong>I got some of the information here:</strong></p><p>http://www.geocities.com/launchreport/ares1.html</p><p class="MsoNormal" align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Mission requirements call for the two-stage launch vehicle to be capable of inserting a 23.27 tonne Orion spacecraft into a -20x185 km x 28.5 deg suborbital trajectory. This will aim the spent Ares I second stage toward an Indian Ocean impact while Orion fires its service module engine to complete the ascent to orbit. &nbsp; A service module burn at first apogee would need to provide 62 meters per second of additional velocity to circularize the orbit at 185 km, which is roughly the same as the "OMS-2" burn used to complete the space shuttle ascent to orbit.&nbsp; </font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<strong>Can anyone explain to me what a -20x185 km orbit is?&nbsp; If both numbers were positive, it would be easy.&nbsp; I'm having a hard time visualizing this.</strong><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>