No, Boeing Starliner's NASA astronauts are not stranded in space. Here's why.

[Admin]

Boeing Starliner's historic 1st astronaut mission has been extended repeatedly for thruster troubleshooting. But its two astronauts are not stuck on the ISS.

No, Boeing Starliner's NASA astronauts are not stranded in space. Here's why. : Read more

 

[Flash Sheridan]

“While it's not a slam-dunk that Starliner will return home shortly” sounds like a verbose rephrasing of “stranded in space” to me.

 

[billslugg]

There was never a return date mentioned when the craft went up. They were supposed to be home "in about a week". So far, 7 weeks in, they are still enjoying a welcome at ISS. When that fades we can say they are stranded.

 

[George²]

When I read in whatever title: "here"s why" I an sure that follows brainwashing.

 

[Helio]

Nice report.

It makes sense to study the service module before discarding it during re-entry.

 

[Dortmund66]

Boeing Starliner's historic 1st astronaut mission has been extended repeatedly for thruster troubleshooting. But its two astronauts are not stuck on the ISS.

No, Boeing Starliner's NASA astronauts are not stranded in space. Here's why. : Read more

And I'm an alien named Paul. Go figure.

 

[gybognarjr]

Boeing Starliner's historic 1st astronaut mission has been extended repeatedly for thruster troubleshooting. But its two astronauts are not stuck on the ISS.

No, Boeing Starliner's NASA astronauts are not stranded in space. Here's why. : Read more

The so called Boeing Co. representatives are continuously dishonest,they are telling lies and grossly incompetent, but the successive row of their failures tells the true story. There was once an excellent Boeing Company, but for decades now, it is the failed McDonnell Douglas Company masquerading as such, since those managers took over at the merger in 1997. R.I.P. Boeing.

 

[mamkpa2001]

Boeing Starliner's historic 1st astronaut mission has been extended repeatedly for thruster troubleshooting. But its two astronauts are not stuck on the ISS.

No, Boeing Starliner's NASA astronauts are not stranded in space. Here's why. : Read more

Yes they are.

 

[kfonda]

There is no way you'll ever convince me that this was anything other than a massive failure. Whoever made the decision to go ahead with the launch even with the problems they were having should be fired. They are very lucky that no has died and I really hope they make it back without any further incidents.

 

[Conaltkobold]

“While it's not a slam-dunk that Starliner will return home shortly” sounds like a verbose rephrasing of “stranded in space” to me.

Seriously what a propaganda machine

 

[billslugg]

At the June 2 press conference prior to the June 5 launch the mission duration was to be "about a week". They got up there and decided to stay awhile. As long as no one gets into danger, it's irrelevant.

 

[mplem62]

“While it's not a slam-dunk that Starliner will return home shortly” sounds like a verbose rephrasing of “stranded in space” to me.

Agree. This is really starting to look like sophomoric propaganda. Can we all please do better?

 

[gsteele531]

Let's not sugar-coat it; it's a boondoggle and they wouldn't be there if Boeing's hardware worked. It's all marketspeak and spin, with each day marking a new "reason" to stay up there that is noble, justified, serendipitous - and baloney.

I'm tempted to respond with: "What's the problem? All they have to do is hold their breath, jump out, and pull the rip cord when they get close to the ground." It's about as truth-based as the fables being woven by Boeing's Aesops about why they haven't made it back.

Are they hoping that if the capsule self-destructs on re-entry, enough time will have passed that no one will notice? Or is Boeing trying to spread out the slow, sweaty train wreck that their corporation's QA has become of late?

 

[gsteele531]

The so called Boeing Co. representatives are continuously dishonest,they are telling lies and grossly incompetent, but the successive row of their failures tells the true story. There was once an excellent Boeing Company, but for decades now, it is the failed McDonnell Douglas Company masquerading as such, since those managers took over at the merger in 1997. R.I.P. Boeing.

Having worked directly with MacDac back in the '80's, I can validate that assessment 100%. Never let a good idea slaughter a cash cow.

 

[mcswell]

From the article: "If the astronauts leave, engineers lose the chance to not only observe the spacecraft's behavior but also to use the service module that houses the propulsion system. " How so? The spacecraft can be directed to return without humans on board, and surely it can be told to do other things after disconnecting from the ISS; and it has enough sensors to show what's going on. The astronauts aren't going to go for a space walk to check things out--there's nothing they could see that couldn't be sensed by onboard sensors and (surely!) relayed back to Earth. In fact, it seems like you could do *more* stress testing without astronauts on board, because if something goes wrong, nobody dies.

 

[HIBBIE35]

Hopefully Elon saves the day and rescues them

 

[AlbyBo65]

Clearly there are faces to be saved here. They will bring Starliner and its crew down eventually, no matter the risk. Then the mission will be deemed as fully successful, and Starliner will get "certified", so everybody at Nasa and Boeing will keep their jobs.
It will not fly again of course. Nobody will be willing to risk his career or his life on this mess of a spacecraft. By the time Boeing will have it "fixed", ISS will be ready for deorbit.

 

[DrRaviSharma]

Whatever, for NASA at least, it is not a short haul. It is necessary that they succeed.
Hence unless we are almost absolutely sure about safe deorbit and landing, they have other alternative spacecraft including Russian if SpaceX is not usable for any unknown reason.
I wish Columbia had taken that route., and stayed docked to ISS till alternatives were explored.
There is no hurry to return but every ascend and descend now must be safe human flight.
Best Wishes

 

[Cdr. Shepard]

When I read in whatever title: "here"s why" I an sure that follows brainwashing.

Or when the title starts with the "No, _____________ are not _________." format.

 

[newtons_laws]

Ars Technica article: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/...ng-starliners-astronauts-back-on-crew-dragon/

"For a long time, it seemed almost certain that the astronauts would return to Earth inside Starliner. However, there has been a lot of recent activity at NASA, Boeing, and SpaceX that suggests that Wilmore and Williams could come home aboard a Crew Dragon spacecraft rather than Starliner. Due to the critical importance of this mission, Ars is sharing what we know as of Thursday afternoon.
One informed source said it was greater than a 50-50 chance that the crew would come back on Dragon. Another source said it was significantly more likely than not they would. To be clear, NASA has not made a final decision. This probably will not happen until at least next week. It is likely that Jim Free, NASA's associate administrator, will make the call.
Asked if it was now more likely than not that Starliner's crew would return on Dragon, NASA spokesperson Josh Finch told Ars on Thursday evening, " NASA is evaluating all options for the return of agency astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams from the International Space Station as safely as possible. No decisions have been made and the agency will continue to provide updates on its planning."

What follows are some data points that Ars can confidently report based on multiple sources:

• NASA keeps delaying a decision. A Flight Readiness Review meeting had been scheduled for today, August 1, several days in advance. However, it was canceled. Instead, NASA put out a vague blog update on Thursday stating, "Following the completion of Starliner’s return planning, which is expected to continue into next week, more information will be shared about the agency’s return readiness review preparations and subsequent media briefing." So maybe the meeting will take place next week.
• NASA issued a $266,678 task award to SpaceX on July 14 for a "special study for emergency response." NASA said this study was not directly related to Starliner's problems, but two sources told Ars it really was. Although the study entailed work on flying more than four crew members home on Crew Dragon—a scenario related to Frank Rubio and the Soyuz MS-22 leaks—it also allowed SpaceX to study flying Dragon home with six passengers, a regular crew complement in addition to Wilmore and Williams.
• SpaceX has been actively working on a scenario in which two or four astronauts launch on board Crew 9. (A normal crew is four) This mission has a nominal launch date of August 18, but it could well be delayed. SpaceX has already identified flight suits that would fit Wilmore and Williams, allowing them to fly home on the Crew-8 spacecraft (presently docked to the space station) or the Crew-9 vehicle. It is unclear how crews would be assigned to the two Dragon return flights. It is possible, if four astronauts launch on Crew 9, that five people could fly home on each of the two Dragons.
• Two sources told Ars that in meetings this week at NASA field centers, there have been vigorous discussions about whether or not to fly crew home on Starliner. Multiple groups remain "no" on Starliner as of Wednesday. It is unclear how this will be resolved. Some engineers believe that if there are questions about Starliner, then NASA should opt for the safe course—flying on Crew Dragon, which has safely launched 13 times and landed 12 times.

 

[Cdr. Shepard]

Ars Technica article: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/...ng-starliners-astronauts-back-on-crew-dragon/

"For a long time, it seemed almost certain that the astronauts would return to Earth inside Starliner. However, there has been a lot of recent activity at NASA, Boeing, and SpaceX that suggests that Wilmore and Williams could come home aboard a Crew Dragon spacecraft rather than Starliner. Due to the critical importance of this mission, Ars is sharing what we know as of Thursday afternoon.
One informed source said it was greater than a 50-50 chance that the crew would come back on Dragon. Another source said it was significantly more likely than not they would. To be clear, NASA has not made a final decision. This probably will not happen until at least next week. It is likely that Jim Free, NASA's associate administrator, will make the call.
Asked if it was now more likely than not that Starliner's crew would return on Dragon, NASA spokesperson Josh Finch told Ars on Thursday evening, " NASA is evaluating all options for the return of agency astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams from the International Space Station as safely as possible. No decisions have been made and the agency will continue to provide updates on its planning."

What follows are some data points that Ars can confidently report based on multiple sources:

• NASA keeps delaying a decision. A Flight Readiness Review meeting had been scheduled for today, August 1, several days in advance. However, it was canceled. Instead, NASA put out a vague blog update on Thursday stating, "Following the completion of Starliner’s return planning, which is expected to continue into next week, more information will be shared about the agency’s return readiness review preparations and subsequent media briefing." So maybe the meeting will take place next week.
• NASA issued a $266,678 task award to SpaceX on July 14 for a "special study for emergency response." NASA said this study was not directly related to Starliner's problems, but two sources told Ars it really was. Although the study entailed work on flying more than four crew members home on Crew Dragon—a scenario related to Frank Rubio and the Soyuz MS-22 leaks—it also allowed SpaceX to study flying Dragon home with six passengers, a regular crew complement in addition to Wilmore and Williams.
• SpaceX has been actively working on a scenario in which two or four astronauts launch on board Crew 9. (A normal crew is four) This mission has a nominal launch date of August 18, but it could well be delayed. SpaceX has already identified flight suits that would fit Wilmore and Williams, allowing them to fly home on the Crew-8 spacecraft (presently docked to the space station) or the Crew-9 vehicle. It is unclear how crews would be assigned to the two Dragon return flights. It is possible, if four astronauts launch on Crew 9, that five people could fly home on each of the two Dragons.
• Two sources told Ars that in meetings this week at NASA field centers, there have been vigorous discussions about whether or not to fly crew home on Starliner. Multiple groups remain "no" on Starliner as of Wednesday. It is unclear how this will be resolved. Some engineers believe that if there are questions about Starliner, then NASA should opt for the safe course—flying on Crew Dragon, which has safely launched 13 times and landed 12 times.

Very pertinent info., thanks!

I suspected as much, and assumed they won't admit the need for a rescue mission until the nth hour to allow Boeing to save face in the interim. Astronauts needing to be rescued by your competitor doesn't make for good press. We will see if Boeing can get it straightened out in the next week or two.

 

[spacejet]

I disagree a little bit with Elizabeth on this one. This article seems to put 100% faith in the official corporate explanations and the optimism of the astronauts, downplaying the possibility that things might not be as simple as presented, especially in a politically charged environment...


Also I can't stand these article headlines which smack of "No, you're wrong about X, allow me to explain to your small mind..."

 

[Starlight10]

“While it's not a slam-dunk that Starliner will return home shortly” sounds like a verbose rephrasing of “stranded in space” to me.

Concur.

 

[billslugg]

There is an unknown amount of damage lurking in the vehicle. It can return all by itself. The two astronauts are safe on the Space Station and they can find another ride home. After all, it is a "station". If it cannot accomodate two lost travelers, it is not a "station", it is a "waypoint". The International Space Waypoint.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

This whole discussion seems to be dancing around the central point without discussing it.

This is supposed to be the "Crewed Flight Test" that is the last step in certifying the Boeing StarLiner capsule to carry crew to the ISS for NASA.

If it returns without crew, that will not gain it the certification for humans.

The significance of the decision to bring the two crew members home on a different capsule has major repercussions on whether the Boeing contract continues or ends. Boeing is already losing money on this contract, and may not see any net profit at all even when the capsule completes its 6 contracted missions, if it requires much more work to get the capsule certified. And, NASA has to consider that time is important, too. If there is no clear date when StarLiner can be expected to be crew certified, then there is no clear date for getting a second option for sending crew to the ISS. NASA will have to consider other options, such as Sierra Space.

I think that there was initially a lot of hope on the parts of some of the involved government and company planners that this flight could still end with a successful crewed landing at White Sands and that there would be a short list of fixes that would result in a certification once the fixes were completed and accepted. But, I think other, probably wiser, voices inside at least NASA have been raised and leaked that challenge that hope. It seems inconceivable that this flight could now end in way that would result in certification without an additional test flight that demonstrates that the fixes really have worked.

So, from an engineering perspective, it seems most prudent to get as much info as feasible before losing the support module during reentry, and to do that reentry robotically, with the astronauts coming back on a Dragon capsule. NASA gets to make good on its claim that it '"puts safety first", and the depth of the egg layer on the faces of Boeing people is not going to get much thicker. So, the political risks are starting to align with the safety risks, such that there is much less additional political and physical risk of doing the descent robotically than with the crew in the capsule.