pharmaceuticals and other materials manufactured in orbit

[danhezee]

If mankind is going to have a permanent presence in space, eventually a better business model than tourism needs to be implemented. Now don’t get me wrong, I know that tourism is a great first step. Take Shreveport, Louisiana for example; they opened several casinos to get tourists to their city. To make a long story short, because of the casinos the city of Shreveport makes a good percentage of the movies playing at theaters these days.<br /><br />Once we get the tourist in orbit, what kind of opportunities will they see as a safe investment?<br /><br />I came across this on google books, "opportunities for the space entrepreneur" it mentions pharmaceuticals and metal alloy manufacturing in orbit. How much research has been done in those areas?<br /><br />What pharmaceuticals and/or alloys could be profitable and to a certain extend affordable?<br /><br />That question is ambiguous; answer it however you feel is right.<br /><br />What can be profitable from the lowest amount of mass? What can be manufactured that is literally worth its weight in gold?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[solarspot]

Well Platinum could be mined and sold for about one quarter of the current cost it would take to mine it in space in the first place... assuming you don't mine so much as to saturate the market.<br /><br /><br />

 

[danhezee]

I dont think someone is gonna invest money for mining asteroids until others industries prove that a profit can be turned from orbit. <br /><br />Right now, poeple are investing their money to reach and stay in LEO. the next round of investments would be IMO returning goods from orbit. then once that becomes established, we see investers spending money to land and return material from the moon and NEO.<br /><br />to better rephrase my question. what can be done to establish the necessary infrastructure, from a business or entrepreneur standpoint, to mine asteriods? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nexium]

Short term, action dolls and simular collectables (made in space) will be perchased at high prices as long as they are scarce. Longer term we need customers in space to buy space made goods, as space to space transportation costs in theory can be very low.<br />Craft returning to Earth with unused cargo space can also be cheap, but likely not often. Neil

 

[MannyPim]

I don't know about a "better" business model than tourism.<br />Tourism is a great business model. It will be hard to beat.<br />It will be an early money maker and it will only grow and improve with time.<br /><br />There may be other models that are just as good, but better ? Hmmm I don;t know.<br /><br />Having said that, Tom Pickins (son of T. Boone Pickins) has a company that is working on growing proterin crystals in orbit at the ISS. Microgravity is ideal for quckly gorwing hi quality crystals.<br />Protein crystals are crucial in understanding the molecular structure of the proteins. That, in turn is crucial in desiging drugs to work in the human body and interact with the proteins themselves or with the receptors on cell membranes.<br /><br />It is expected that major advances in pharmaceuticals will begin as soon as we have these protein crystal growth facilities up and running. That means billions of dollars in economic benefit and better medicines to cure and treat diseases. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>The only way to know what is possible is to attempt the impossible.</em></font> </div>

 

[thereiwas]

That crystal growing will be even more popular in a Bigelow facility, as ISS is 'microgravity' only for short periods. The rest of the time the CMG's are twisting the place around for one reason or another, and you have astronauts stomping around all the time, shaking the whole structure.

 

[docm]

Perfect crystal growth, especially proteins, will soon be done on Earth. The paper was published June 25th in the Applied Physics Letters & posted here. <br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Magnetic gravity trick grows perfect crystals<br /><br />One of the few scientific success stories of the International Space Station has been its use to grow large, pure crystals in microgravity (see Space station unlocks new world of crystals).<br /><br />Now scientists from the Netherlands and Japan have shown that a strong magnetic field can mimic the effects of microgravity when growing protein crystals. The new Earth-bound technique could provide a cheaper and easier way to produce crystals of the same quality as those grown aboard the ISS.<br /> /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

"Having said that, Tom Pickins (son of T. Boone Pickins) has a company that is working on growing proterin crystals in orbit at the ISS. Microgravity is ideal for quckly gorwing hi quality crystals. "<br /><br />That has flown on many shuttle missions and Pickens' company had nothing to do with the experiment. It is just a bunch of PR BS<br /><br />A new way of growing them on the ground has been found, which will probably negate the need to do it in space.

 

[kelvinzero]

I posted this old idea somewhere else, but I think people would pay a fair bit for various non-scientific uses of robots on the moon. For example simply writing messages in the dust by flattening then pressing shapes into it. The result could be neat a4 'plaques' that would last forever. <br /><br />Perhaps someone could roll out a full scale baseball diamond.. "Build it, they will come.." <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[spacester]

danhazee,<br /><br />Nice post. <br /><br />I agree with Manny in that Space Tourism has a pretty good business plan, and it'll be a tough one to surpass. But your point is well taken - I interpret your ambiguous question as "Tourism is a great start and perhaps necessary to becoming Space-Faring, but it may not be sufficient. IOW true spacefaring requires more than tourism." I agree.<br /><br />Whatever ideas are brought up, there will be a Space Cynic at the ready to explain why it won't work. And you might find someone who will argue the other side. Not so much anymore, but that's another story :-(<br /><br />I wouldn't count out protein crystal growth, esp. at Bigelow's facilities, but also at ISS, just yet. A few things: The applications of the magnetic levitation may be limited and the costs are non-trivial. There's more to it than just convective disturbances. See this longer, more instructive abstract. The field can also be used in space for even better crystals; the new land-based systems still won't produce *perfect* crystals.<br /><br />Besides, for political reasons alone, it seems certain at least *some* experiments will fly on ISS.<br /><br />Anyway, back to your question.<br /><br />Talking about moon rocks paying for moon exploration has always been derided by the Space Cynic. You get out an envelope and try to work the numbers, and they have a solid point. Yet I've always thought there is a part to play by the acquisition of moon rocks for private ownership. As one of many revenue streams, it has a part to play.<br /><br />Same with trinkets: a person could send up a glass-making facility and send back a large chunk of lunar glass and make some money back off that as well. No one thing like that is going to pay the bills, even with CATS on the order of $1000/lb to LEO. Now, at $1000/kg, maybe you'd have a shot at it, maybe just those two could put together a business plan. Now, add your m <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[thereiwas]

Telepresence. Web-cam on steroids.<br /><br />How much would you pay for a one-hour slot controlling some sort of bot on the lunar surface?<br /><br />Sign up at this URL... We take Visa.

 

[billslugg]

If you put the bot on the moon and established a ground station all for $200,000,000 and the bot lasted 5 years, you would need $2770 an hour to pay off the debt. I doubt you would keep it booked. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[MannyPim]

<font color="yellow"> That has flown on many shuttle missions and Pickens' company had nothing to do with the experiment. It is just a bunch of PR BS </font><br /><br />I am not so sure.<br />While what you say is true, the previous shuttle crystal growth projects have basically proven the technology.<br /><br />What we are talking about now is industrial scale operations.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>The only way to know what is possible is to attempt the impossible.</em></font> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

"What we are talking about now is industrial scale operations. "<br /><br />crystal growth is not to produce crystals for use. It is to produce crystals to study. There isn't a need for a large amount of protein crystals<br /><br />

 

[docm]

<font color="yellow">crystal growth is not to produce crystals for use. It is to produce crystals to study. There isn't a need for a large amount of protein crystals</font><br /><br />Exactly, and if you can generate them on Earth at the cost of a glorified MRI strength magnet why in hell fly the experiment to the ISS?<br /><br />Damn, Jim and I agreeing on something. Must be time for the Apocalypse <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Of course this begs the question - why bother "finishing" ISS if most of its utility will be endurance flying? That it can do now and most of the really interesting experiments have been canceled or rendered moot anyhow.<br /><br />IMO it's the Edsel of the space program; too big using too many resources and for sure too damned expensive. Making matters worse its modules can't be replaced (nice job design team <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) so one good impact and it's time for it to take a swim in the Pacific anyhow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[danhezee]

Robots on the moon would be neat!!!! I don’t know the cost involve getting something to the moon, but it would make a great theme park attraction, IMO. Most theme parks have a 3-d ride or theater. What if a company made a rover that recorded the lunar surface in 3-d and it leased a 30 minute film to theme parks around the world. Maybe the company can update the movie once a week to insure that your scenery isn’t boring.<br /> <br />Also, at most theme parks they have an attraction that is gonna cost you extra money. What if you had multiple tele-presence robots launch at once to the moon and the only way to use the robots was at the theme parks for $100 every 15 minutes. That way you could have multiple people driving rovers at the same time. With a combination of 3-d movies and tele-presence, I think you could pay off the initial cost rather quickly.<br /><br />IMO, the perfect tele-presence bots would have a camera system like the apache helicopter. You would wear a helmet that displayed what the rover saw and any direction you turn your head the rover’s cameras would follow. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[danhezee]

As far as tourism, I am all for it. However, I have driven across the United States and I have saw the signs for the “World’s largest ________†and I have even stop at a few of the “World’s largest _______â€. Those towns are tourist towns, nothing is there besides a gas station, hotel, restaurant, and of course the “World’s largest ________â€. Obviously, no one moves to those towns looking for a good job, and no one invest any money into those towns. Unless you count gassing up or paying for a room at the hotel because either you needed gas or you were too tired to keep driving.<br /><br />I know tourism is gonna pave the way, but it is futile if all of the tourists after there week long stay in a hotel never spend anymore money in a space related fashion. What I am trying to say is, once you get the rich people there with a gimmick (aka going into space) now how do you get the rich people convinced they can get richer by investing in space.<br /><br />Btw, I know that there are tourist towns that are extremely successful but their gimmick is good and people invest there.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kelvinzero]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>What can be profitable from the lowest amount of mass? What can be manufactured that is literally worth its weight in gold? <br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Electromagnetic energy certainly is worth its weight in gold.<br />Space solar power is a common suggestion. The biggest problem with it is the prohibitive cost of launching from earth. Manufacturing components on the moon is a commonly suggested solution.<br /><br />Lunar oxygen is another material of value, but only to other space projects.<br /><br />Usually lunar materials are only considered valuable to space projects rather than returning to earth. Because they could be launched from the moon by mass drivers, they can be placed in earth orbit at a much cheaper cost than launching from earth. My dream is the moon covered in so many solarpanels you can see them from here, massive smelters and maglev transport, materials delivered to orbit at multiple tons per second, made cost effective by somewhat self-replicating industry built largely from moon resources.<br /><br />It would be good to see x-prizes for all the relevant ISRU technologies.

 

[j05h]

<i>> If mankind is going to have a permanent presence in space, eventually a better business model than tourism needs to be implemented.</i><br /><br />Tourism is a fine market to serve - especially for creating a frequent-flight LEO market. I don't have a cite, but have heard that tourism is the #3 market on Earth, the 1st being arms manufacturing and the 2nd being narcotics. Tourism would by far be the most harmonious choice of the three.<br /><br /><i>> Once we get the tourist in orbit, what kind of opportunities will they see as a safe investment? </i><br /><br />It partly depends on scale. At one flight a month to a small Bigelow station (SunDancer and single BA330), the safe investment is in transport and leveraging every ounce that is placed in orbit - recycling of water but also wet-lab uses of expended stages, etc. <br /><br />Once there are several commercial operators with larger Bigelow-built stations, there will exist opportunities for extensive utilization of space resources. Primary in this, for people-in-space, is lots of water. Phoboan, Lunar, Martian, asteroidal, where ever it comes from. People and rocket engines both need lots of it. <br /><br />Next in importance is bandwidth, IMHO. Almost everybody that flies is going to want to video-blog it, especially if it's easy. After that are extras like spacewalks, expensive orbital-grown cuisine ("The 2024 Farside grapes were tart and metallic, producing a fine bouquet. A bottle for $50,000") and other specialty items. Services and uniqueness.<br /><br /><i>> ... mentions pharmaceuticals and metal alloy manufacturing in orbit. How much research has been done in those areas? ... <br />What pharmaceuticals and/or alloys could be profitable and to a certain extend affordable? </i><br /><br />Plenty of research. The problems for pharma include the speed of business (space research is often eclipsed by other medical advances) and regularity/cost of access. Metal alloys and the mythical perfect ball bearing are al <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[danhezee]

wow it is the #3 market. i had no idea. anyway that got me thinking about what tourism actually is?<br />Is tourism simply paying for something you want to see? If i go to the park or watch a movie in my home town does that make me a tourism or not?<br />what if i go to a national park for a week of camping and i need to buy some food from the closest town, I need to buy it to survive, so does that money get labeled as tourism?<br /><br />another thought that should be its own reply is..... <br />I read somewhere that a company was launching beer hops into space, not into orbit, and making space beer. I think it would cool to have a habitat that grew nothing but wheat to make a more authentic space beer. if you had a capsule dedicated to growing wheat attached to a space hotel, it is a win-win situation. The hotel would have a nice CO2 and Oxygen system and every couple of months you harvest the crop and return it to earth for processing and generate another source of revenue.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>