Phoenix Mars Lander.

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3488

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Over the past decade, the agency has sent half a dozen or so probes to explore the planet. Two rovers are still sniffing around the surface, where they've already increased our understanding of Martian geology. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, meanwhile, has only just begun to send back breathtaking high-resolution images from space. And now comes yet another probe: the Phoenix mission, above, to be launched in August, will land in mid-2008 in the Martian arctic. Scientists already know there's ice under the surface. It will be Phoenix's job to dig down, find it and try to figure out whether the Martian subsurface was ever—or may even still be—hospitable to some form of life.
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Thought I would start this thread, as the launch date is fast approaching on: Thursday 9th August 2007.

Andrew Brown.

"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/

http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/this ... anijournal
 
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3488

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Mars Phoenix Lander<br /><br />Spacecraft: <br />Launch: August 9, 2007 <br />Arrival: May 25, 2008 <br /><br />The Phoenix mission is the first chosen for NASA's Scout program, an initiative for smaller, lower-cost, competed spacecraft. Named for the resilient mythological bird, Phoenix uses a lander that was intended for use by 2001's Mars Surveyor lander prior to its cancellation. It also carries a complex suite of instruments that are improved variations of those that flew on the lost Mars Polar Lander.<br /><br />In the continuing pursuit of water on Mars, the poles are a good place to probe, as water ice is found there. Phoenix will land on the icy northern pole of Mars between 65 and 75-north latitude. During the course of the 150 Martian day mission, Phoenix will deploy its robotic arm and dig trenches up to half a meter (1.6 feet) into the layers of water ice. These layers, thought to be affected by seasonal climate changes, could contain organic compounds that are necessary for life.<br /><br />To analyze soil samples collected by the robotic arm, Phoenix will carry an "oven" and a "portable laboratory." Selected samples will be heated to release volatiles that can be examined for their chemical composition and other characteristics.<br /><br />Imaging technology inherited from both the Pathfinder and Mars Exploration Rover missions will also be implemented in Phoenix's stereo camera, located on its 2-meter (6.6-foot) mast. The camera's two "eyes" will reveal a high-resolution perspective of the landing site's geology, and will also provide range maps that will enable the team to choose ideal digging locations. Multi-spectral capability will enable the identification of local minerals.<br /><br />To update our understanding of martian atmospheric processes, Phoenix will also scan the martian atmosphere up to 20 kilometers (12.4 miles) in altitude, obtaining data about the formation, duration and movement of clouds, fog, and dust plumes. It will also carry temperature an <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Post deleted by 3488 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Subject: Re: Mars Phoenix Lander. <br /><br />Scandia Colles which includes the proposed landing ellipse. 67.5º North & 240º East or 120º West dependent on how longnitude is measured (Scandia Colles). <br /><br />Scandia Colles, in its 1,232 KM / 765 mile diameter entirety, full colour slightly oblique view from Mars Global Surveyor, prior to the end of mission. <br /><br />Note the frost filled craters to the north. I think the landing site is about two thirds of the way up & roughly mid way. <br /><br />Andrew Brown. <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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I hate when that happens <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />Darn photo fell right off the screen onto the floor <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Hi MeteorWayne!!!<br /><br />Hope you had a good weekend!!!!<br /><br />What picture was that????<br /><br />Below is a chart showing the descent of Mars Phoenix Lander to the Martian surface (assuming there in no repeat of Mars Polar Lander)!!<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Route of Mars Phoenix Lander from Earth to Mars.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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The Scandia Colles one. I noticed it didn't attach the first time.<br /><br />I always watch your posts first thing in the morning here, but spend an interminable amount of time waiting for them all to get approved <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Of course MeteorWayne, you are five hours behind us. Here it is 2:30 PM BST (British Summer Time, GMT+1) or more accurately CET (Central European Time).<br /><br />Also thank you for your support. It is most welcome.<br /><br />Andrew Brown.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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no_way

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Its been a long time since last successful powered landing .. <br /><br />To paraphrase the old riddle: If a probe falls on Mars, and there is nobody around, does it make a THUD ? <br />
 
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bpcooper

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The launch date is August 3rd. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>
 
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3488

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Thanks GalacticHalo.<br /><br />They seem to have made this very difficult for themselves.<br /><br />Ground needs to have a tilt of less than 16 degrees & rocks no taller than 40 cm (the lander could tip over, or the circular solar panels not to be able to deploy, as could be jammed / hemmed in by large neighbouring rocks, or the craft gets punctured from beneath, etc).<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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An update!!!<br /><br /> Patchy Surface Ice.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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centsworth_II

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It's interesting to look back at this planetary society update where the use of THEMIS <br />was mentioned, but in relation to looking for rocks, not ice. Also mentioned was that ice <br />can look like rocks to THEMIS so the data needs to be compared to HIRISE images for <br />calibration. And THEMIS cannot see ice deeper than 8 inches (that explains 8 inches being <br />at the maximum, "deep" end of the scale on the THEMIS ice distribution map.)<br /><br />The way I see it, the Mars Odyssey Gamma Ray Spectrometer determines the average ice amount <br />(ice to dirt ratio) over broad areas. THEMIS, also on Mars Odyssey, gives a more detailed look at <br />surface ice distribution as well as looking for rocky areas by their thermal signature. And MRO's <br />HiRise looks for dangerous rocks in its very high resolution images. A veritable ballet of data.<br /><br />Also from the Planetary Society article: The Phoenix landing areas are in winter's dark now, so it <br />will be after Phoenix is already en route -- about three months before landing -- when more HiRise <br />images of the chosen landing site will be available. But the site can be changed up to a few <br />weeks before landing if the additional images give a reason to do so.<br /><br /><br />I was dissapointed to see one error in the "Patchy Surface Ice" article: <br /><i>"...NASA's Phoenix mission, designed to drill down to sample the Martian ice."</i><br /><br />Phoenix wil dig, claw, even scrape down to 3 or 4 feet beneath the surface, <br />but it does not have a drill.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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Yes indeed. We will learn much about the landing site, prior to MPL's arrival.<br /><br />I was not sure about the drill statement being correct. But as you say, there is no onboard drill.<br /><br />Also on another article, I noticed that they stated that<br />New Horizons was half a TRILLION miles away, not the correct half a BILLION. <br /><br />Someone needs to proof read some of these articles!!!<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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gunsandrockets

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<...Named for the resilient mythological bird, Phoenix uses a lander that was intended for use by 2001's Mars Surveyor lander prior to its cancellation... ><br /><br />Here's hoping the Phoenix works better than the Polar Lander! I think the failure of the Polar Lander can be traced to lack of standardization. The Polar Lander was the fourth different design used for the six Mars surface missions sent by America. Whereas first six landers sent by America to the Moon all used the same Surveyor design.<br /><br />The Mars Science Laboratory is will mark the eight Mars surface mission and the fifth different landing design sent to Mars, yet there will only be one MSL mission and there will be no other MSL rovers! Does this kind of program make any sense? Obviously there will be more surface missions to Mars beyond the MSL, so why not keep the same MSL design and send mutiple missions over time? In fact, why wasn't such a methodology used dating back to the first successful Viking missions? How much cheaper and less risky could the missions since Viking have been if the same Viking lander design was used?<br /><br />Obviously the Viking is not a rover, but that's no reason why Viking landers couldn't have been used as the platform for delivering rovers to Mars, instead of inventing entirely new landing systems whether it was the two different airbag systems of Pathfinder and MERS or the new skycrane system of MSL.<br /><br /><br /><br />
 
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jimfromnsf

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"1. Does this kind of program make any sense? Obviously there will be more surface missions to Mars beyond the MSL, <br /><br />2. so why not keep the same MSL design and send mutiple missions over time? <br /><br />3. In fact, why wasn't such a methodology used dating back to the first successful Viking missions? <br /><br />4. How much cheaper and less risky could the missions since Viking have been if the same Viking lander design was used?<br /><br />5. Obviously the Viking is not a rover, but that's no reason why Viking landers couldn't have been used as the platform for delivering rovers to Mars,<br /><br />6 instead of inventing entirely new landing systems whether it was the two different airbag systems of Pathfinder and MERS or the new skycrane system of MSL."<br /><br />1. Yes , it does. <br />2. They intent to reuse the "skycrane" concept for followon missions. It is more interchangeable<br />3. No one thought of the "skycrane" concept back during Viking. It is a fairly recent concept<br /><br />4. The same Viking design couldn't be used on Delta II's a. too big, <br />b. they couldn't be spun to over 70 rpm <br />c. Pathfinder was technology experiment that had some science<br />d. They also needed RTG's<br /><br />5. Yes, there are reasons why they couldn't be used. <br />a. High CG with rover<br />b. Roll off geometry is affected by landing terrain. Couldn't find a way to guarantee that the rover could always be able to roll off<br /><br />6. Pathfinder and MER used the same basic system, just different sizes. MER maxed out the airbag system. Skycrane concept is looked at as a long term solution
 
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centsworth_II

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NASA's unmanned space program is not rich enough to buy wholesale.<br />It'd be great to have more MERs... no money, great to have more than<br />one MSL... no money. What purpose building a platform useable for<br />multiple missions when there is no money to launch multiple missions.<br /><br />It's the same paradox suffered by poor people around the world.<br />They are stuck buying rice one small, handwrapped bag at a time<br />at huge markup when buying a 50kg bag would be much cheaper<br />in the long run. But they don't have the budget to do otherwise. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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gunsandrockets

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<NASA's unmanned space program is not rich enough to buy wholesale.><br /><br />The point is making vitually every mission a custom mission wastes money. Why reinvent the wheel, why not reuse systems and designs with a proven track record of success? <br />
 
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gunsandrockets

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<They intent to reuse the "skycrane" concept for followon missions. ><br /><br />Oh really? What follow on mission? If there is any Mars surface mission planned by NASA beyond MSL that's real groundbreaking news especially considering there is only one MSL mission planned for. <br /><br />So what exactly is the follow on mission you refer to? It must be a big mission considering skycrane was developed for dropping very large payloads on Mars (assuming skycrane even works).
 
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holmec

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>4. How much cheaper and less risky could the missions since Viking have been if the same Viking lander design was used?<br /><br />5. Obviously the Viking is not a rover, but that's no reason why Viking landers couldn't have been used as the platform for delivering rovers to Mars,<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Well, regarding the vikings. They were not cheap. They were big and heavy. I think about double the size of Spirit or Opportunity. Thus the pathfinder and sojourner mission. And the rovers built on that technology. Also the risk is pretty high whatever vehicle you use. It risky going to Mars. <br /><br />I guess I didn't say anything new. lol. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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holmec

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>It must be a big mission considering skycrane was developed for dropping very large payloads on Mars (assuming skycrane even works).<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Hopefully it will work. I was under the impression that Spirit and Opportunity rovers were at the weight limit of the air bags, and that a skycrane system idea was for larger payloads. It does seem risky. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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