PlanetQuest

[newtonian]

Yes, I agree with that.<br /><br />Origins, cause and effect....<br /><br />For me, there are two basic choices in origins and cause and effect:<br /><br />1. An infinite number of causes and effects going back in infinite past time.<br /><br />2. A first cause, or First Cause.<br /><br />I believe the latter, for many reasons.<br /><br />Then comes your question, and can involve this question:<br /><br />Was the First Cause intelligent?<br /><br />For me, I believe yes - perhaps infinitely intelligent - certainly more intelligent than us tiny humans.<br /><br />It is hard enough for intelligent human creators to create intelligent systems, dubbed AI (for artificial intelligence).<br /><br />I have seen no good model for how intelligence could come from a mere chance combination of matter and/or energy.<br />Back to thread theme, Planet Quest becomes for me a scientific curiousity as to how many life forms were created and where they were created and for what purpose.<br /><br />

 

[nexium]

Slow Earth rotation: We can make a good guess from what happens close to Earth's poles such as Greenland and Antarctica = 50 degrees c = 90 degrees f difference between high and low for the year, more in some locations.<br /> From Venus we learn that a much thicker atmosphere with lots of green house gas makes temperature variations small, in spite slow rotation. Earth's Moon and Mercury illustrate the converse: Extreme temperature range with no atmosphere. Neil

 

[marcel_leonard]

<font color="yellow">It's that simple. LIke most things. There is probably a single gene with a few modifiers which does just that. </font><br /><br />The question was not to increase already existing cortical cell columns; but in fact where did intelligence originate from in the first place, and why? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

<font color="yellow">If you want more of an answer, then you'll have to do some good, original science of your own. </font><br /><br />Like I said the great question mark is the origin of intellegence.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

<font color="yellow">If you want to make claims about what you think I believe, then check the facts first, rather than making egregiously stupid and unsubstantiated comments. <br /><br />I can guarantee that what you know about my beliefs is very little. I can also guarantee that what you know about the sciences is even less, as your posts lack ANY scientific content, whatsoever. Even Newt finds an acorn now and then. And his comments are not even worthy of comment. </font><br /><br />Your rants/raves about how ingorant I am, and how knowledgable you are only show; that according to your own Darwinian definition you're not very intelligent.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[killium]

He's a doctor <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Steve:<br />I prefer the post of someone who is trying to bring in something, even if it is not perfectly right, at least, we can argue. If the only thing one do is reject (totally reject) other's post because YOU are the one who knows, it affect your credibility, even if you are right in what you say.<br /><br />Now, can we come back to the initial subject ? I don't care who is right, i just want to learn new things and speculate/dream a bit about what is to come in terrestrial planet detection. I think the pinhole camera idea is very promising. I had an idea too: could we, using current technology, build an interferometer the size of the planet ? If we could point all the telescopes of the Earth at the same place, and link the signals using the Internet (or whatever other telecom system) we would have a virtual instrument the size of the Earth. Would that be possible ?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

<font color="yellow">I had an idea too: could we, using current technology, build an interferometer the size of the planet ? If we could point all the telescopes of the Earth at the same place, and link the signals using the Internet (or whatever other telecom system) we would have a virtual instrument the size of the Earth. Would that be possible ?</font><br /><br />I think someone posted the concept of a Gravity Lenz; which is being carried on by the ACS. Not to mention the work going on TPF project. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[nexium]

I will concede that stevehw knows more about almost everything than marcel, but that does not mean marcel can not contribute a brilliant idea. Some of the best things come from people who think outside the box, so stevehw should be less arrogant about his conformity to main stream science. GIP could have 100 meanings depending on the disapline. Gravitic intensity propulsion perhaps = GIP? Neil

 

[fatjoe]

I don't see anything logical at all in steve's arguement he merely likes to argue...

 

[marcel_leonard]

I'm looking through the past post, and can't seem to find the post where you made your original so-called challenge:<br /><br /><font color="yellow">You still have not provided your definition for life. I gave mine and then challenged you to give one of yours. </font><br /><br />My original question which you chose to ignore w/ another question, was where did intelligence originate from? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

<font color="yellow">If you're going to ignore the facts, then who <br />cares?<br /><br />I said we do not yet have an answer.<br /><br />I think you have some kind of ulterior philosophical motive in pursuing this line of thinking, frankly. as your continued promotion of this indicates.</font><br /><br />I think you're the ONE w/ an ulterior motive. We aren't talking about Biblical Genesis, or Darwinian Theory. I'm simply asking the question in order to stimulate some thought on the subject. You on the other hand fancy yourself a PhD of Biological/Physics; you seem to have an answer to nearly everything without ever simply admitting that you don't have a clue, now I ask you how intelligent is that?... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[killium]

your judging other's intelligence by verifying if they know what GIP stands for ?<br /><br />Whoa!!!!!! i give up!<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[killium]

the space pinhole camera<br /><br />It needs a donnut shaped filter the size of a football field, the center hole beeing about 30ft diameter. I think this could be done relatively easily. That donnut must be stable in space so it needs some kind of propulsion. We can make it slowly rotate so it would be more stable on that axis.<br /><br />Now it must be at 10000ft of the telescope. That is where things becomes tricky. Both equipment must always be in line, and they cannot be motionless in space. We also want to be able to look at several places, if we want to re-oriented it, we cannot simply rotate the two things cause they would no longer be in line. We must rotate the two things as if they were ONE thing. I think the best would be to have both equipment on a solar orbit, and wait one year to scan all the sky..... all the sky that is in the solar system rotation plan......? Maybe there is a bit more thinking need here.<br /><br />We could have the two equipment bounded together with some kind of structure. Then it would be possible to point it in whatever direction we need to. Do we have what it needs to built a 10000ft pole in space ?<br /><br />We can see there is some little things that needs to be addressed, but i don't see anything unreachable with current technology. Why wait 10 or 15 years for TPF or Kepler ? This can be done in only a couple of years (correct me if i forgot something) and yeilds great results.<br /><br />What you all think ?<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

Here is the latest scientific theories on where intelligent life originate from, and where we can find earth-like planets in our galaxy... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[killium]

Its the first time i see an article about panspermia that is realistic. I've always find that idea a bit "too much". I don't rule it out but, i think the earth is the best place light-years around to produce life as we know it. If panspermia is a possibility, i would think that it originate on earth and "contaminated" the other bodys, not the other way around. And yes, as they pointed out, it just push the problem one step away. How does life appeared in the first place, on that other body ?<br /><br />About the intelligence, i think intelligence is just another survival strategy, like running fast, beeing big, beeing poisonnous, or beeing able to fly.... so if the evolution mecanism is running on another world, intelligence is just as possible as the others strategies.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[killium]

general scientific knowledge is not knowing specifics obscur acronyms specific to one domain (here medecine). I work in the telecommunication industry. Do you want me to throw you a couple acronyms ? God knows how many we have in that domain.....<br /><br />MAC, STP, EIGRP, TCP, ARP, IPX, SAP, NCP, NFS, MODEM, LASER, GBIC, that's only on the top of my head in 5 seconds.<br /><br />Your argument would be a bit valid if, at least, you had choosen a popular one like DNA (desoxyribonnucleic acid, and no, i didn't look up on the net, i know that one as probably a lot of poeple here).<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

<font color="yellow">I gave GPS, GPa, and GIP, not as a measure of intelligence, but a measure of general scientific knowledge. He didn't bite on any of them. I guess yours is just about there, too. IQ is not dependent upon scientific knowledge, BTW. There are quite intelligent, learned people who know very little science. And as You don't Appear to know that either.....</font><br /><br />I guess the fact that you know a few acronyms should impress us all. As an engineer I've used Global Positioning Trimbel Systems to survey for about 12 + years, and as for GIP w/ out using the right context you could be talking about anything from Linux to Proteins. You show the classic traits of someone who suffers from low self-esteem; probably due to a lack of progress either in your professional, or academic career... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

<font color="yellow">I think you suffer from an inability to avoid ad hominems, & to think logically, as your continued predilection for them shows.</font><br /><br /><font color="orange">Description of Ad Hominem. Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means<br />"against the man" or "against the person."</font><br /><br />If anyone is guilty of personal attacks it is you. The body of all your responses to my posts is a testament to that. The fact is that pychologically seem to be dealing w/ the need to belittle others. In my opinion that is a classic example of low self-esteem. Studies show that people at all levels of society suffer from this need for belittling others; to make up for their own short comings, and it is usually a projection of how that individual feel about their inner-self... <br /><br />As for the topic of PlanetQuest; it is my humble opinion that the study of the origins of intelligence will go along way to achieve the goals set by organizations like NASA/SETI, and the search for planets that we could one day inhabit... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

There nothing logical about your post. I think your suffering from mens rea, or in this case conscience... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[marcel_leonard]

Here is a logical question for you: Where would say in the galaxy are the most likely habital zones; for terrestrial planets, that contain a liquid water environment? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[nexium]

Hi killum: We can build a tower 10,000 feet tall in orbit, but it will have mechanical trancients = vibrations = oscillations, which will blur the image of the pin hole camera. My guess is present technology can hold the two stuctures of the pin hole camera in proper allignment with thusters (better and at less cost)as they pan the universe, even in low Earth orbit.<br /> We likely need a decade of research and development to do this in solar orbit, but I agree stability will be better in solar orbit. Neil

 

[marcel_leonard]

Why not build a Large Telescope Array in geo-syncronous orbit around the earth, or sun? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..." </div>

 

[nexium]

I agree GEO orbit has the advantage that the telescope would stay over the USA 24/7 Perhaps even better would be an orbit radius of about 15,000 miles where half the sky would not be blocked by Earth, with respect to the distant stars, and the distant planets would remain contineously in view for years. The telescope would circle Earth's surface once per year.<br /> Obviously stevehw does not like people to guess, but I'll guess water is most likely about this distance from the center of our galaxy. Elements as heavy as oxygen are thought to be rare, close to the core of the galaxy. It is possible water is very abundant clear to the outer edge of our galaxy. There is another Nov thread that says 1/5 of the stars near Earth are in highly eliptical orbits which take them from the core to the outer edge of our galaxy in about 100 million years. Perhaps 80% of the time they are further from the center than our solar system, as they likely travel much slower near the outer edge. If some of these have planets with abundent water, then there are at least a few with abundent water thoughout the galaxy, with the possible exception of the core. It is generally thought that radiaton levels reach leathal several times per billion years in most solar systems in the core, so life is unlikely to evolve there, but space travelers may take the risk, even though some die. Neil

 

[eric_apollo]

Subject: User Name: Mental_Avenger<br /><br />To Whom It May Concern,<br /><br />The above person, user name Mental_Avenger has continued to purposely spread lies and disinformation about the International Space Agency and Mr. Rick Dobson. http://www.space.com<br /><br />This person has taken a number of user names on Space.Com and on other Space Message Boards, to spread their lies and disinformation.<br /><br />This person has, and is, working either with, or on the behalf of, some unknown organization or group that has been conducting a focused smear and propaganda campaign now for a number of years against the International Space Agency and Mr. Rick Dobson.<br /><br />This person has been baiting people, and entering posts which the International Space Agency has made, with the "specific purpose" of slandering, causing trouble, and spreading lies & disinformation. And to specifically disrupt and derail these positive posts, and to chase people away. This persons malicious and vindictive actions have been constant and very threatening.<br /><br />We are asking that these slanderous and illegal acts be stopped, and that we obtain the personal information of this person for legal action for criminal defamation of character and slander, and to report this person to Law Enforcement for making terroristic threats against the Chairman & CEO of the International Space Agency, Mr. Rick Dobson. This person "Mental_Avenger" has been making a number of terroristic threats against the Chairman & CEO of the International Space Agency, Mr. Rick Dobson.<br /><br />The International Space Agency or Mr. Dobson has never done anything wrong on Space.Com, and has never been anything less than positive, or has presented anything other than uplifting and factual information to the Space.Com community and posting board.<br /><br />It is criminal to allow this person "Mental_Avenger" to defame, smear, and attack legitimate organizations

 

[craigmac]

Why not have them in synchrounus orbit; wouldn't that make them easier to track? <br /><br />By the way if anyone is interested: I would like to start MSN Instant Message Chat session on this topic. So if you have MSN IM account please post your ID here...<br />