Plant spotted on old martian image near yogi

ChrisS057 · Mar 5, 2006

I've been reveiwing past images taken by rovers on Mars and one of the first images released of Yogi some time ago shows just to the right and behind the rock a slightly green patch when enlarged. I had another look at this old image and the green patch is so obviously a plant similar to a fern that the search for life outside the earth has found its first specimen. The object near the brown arrow head (I put some lines on the image) is a blob of green like a fern unrolling and below the shadow shows it stands above the desert floor. I attach the image file.

vogon13 · Mar 5, 2006

{1:25 PM and picture has not loaded yet} I am going to go WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out on a limb and predict what the picture really shows: a rock <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

telfrow · Mar 5, 2006

Is there room on that limb for two of us? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild. - Tennyson </div>

vogon13 · Mar 5, 2006

How many times have we been through this? And every Fukien time, its a goddam rock. {Fukien is a province in China, btw} <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

telfrow · Mar 5, 2006

How many times have we been through this? 42 <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild. - Tennyson </div>

vogon13 · Mar 5, 2006

THAT'S MY LINE!!!!! LOL!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

ChrisS057 · Mar 5, 2006

Plants are green rocks are not unless covered by plants. It is not a rock, it is a plant. Look again with both eyes. And engage your brain. Use your brain. Look at http://www.chrisscrazyideas.co.uk/ under Mars. THe original image was made into this one, I cannot find the original or the RAW images. THis image the area is still greenish but smudged by the processing. There is no concensus of the colour of mars, and I do not know either. If you take the RAW images of 3 nm, 5 nm and 7 nm and convert to monochrome then cut and paste into an open empty image with the blue for 3 nm, green for 5 nm and red for 7 nm channel selected respectively with the other two switched off then turn on all channels red green blue in photoshop the result is very kind image of mars. I've done it for one of the recent image by opportunity or spirit of a rock, nothing green here but a nice clear image. look again at my mars page on http://www.chrisscrazyideas.co.uk/ and see the image on my page. There are fossil like objects I've seen too. They are supposed to be scrapings of the rat but they were taken before destruction by the rat. Where possible I have put the NASA frame number. http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/ops/Yogi_super_res_th.jpg In this image which is not the original the area is green but has been smudged by the processing. I suggest we try to find the raw images to enable all of us to interpret it ourselves.

Swampcat · Mar 5, 2006

"I had another look at this old image and the green patch is so obviously a plant similar to a fern that the search for life outside the earth has found its first specimen."emphasis mine] The only thing obvious here is that there is a green tinted blob on this over-processed image. I would love to see evidence of life on Mars, but this isn't it. I do, however, disagree with those who see this as a rock. In IMHO, it's a patch of sand <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

telfrow · Mar 5, 2006

You may well be correct, sir. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild. - Tennyson </div>

Swampcat · Mar 5, 2006

"There is no concensus of the colour of mars, and I do not know either. If you take the RAW images of 3 nm, 5 nm and 7 nm and convert to monochrome then cut and paste into an open empty image with the blue for 3 nm, green for 5 nm and red for 7 nm channel selected respectively with the other two switched off then turn on all channels red green blue in photoshop the result is very kind image of mars. I've done it for one of the recent image by opportunity or spirit of a rock, nothing green here but a nice clear image." It might be a good idea for you to study up a little on how color images are made from the raws. From reading your webpage, "Is There Life On Mars," it appears that you have some misconceptions about how this is done. At one point you seem to suggest using specific filters for red, green and blue that don't correspond to the filters you should be using. FYI, the actual filters (taken from the JPL MER Mission Summary page) are shown below: L2 = 753nm (20nm bandpass) Infrared L3 = 673nm (16nm bandpass) Deep Red L4 = 601nm (17nm bandpass) Red L5 = 535nm (20nm bandpass) Green L6 = 482nm (30nm bandpass) Blue L7 = 432nm (32nm Short-pass) Ultraviolet Also keep in mind that the ambient lighting on Mars is likely different from what we see on Earth with suspended iron oxide dust responsible for the general redness seen in most "natural" color processed images. And lastly, I would caution against over-processing. It appears to me, after reading your webpage, that you are simply introducing artifacts and distortions that don't reflect reality. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

qso1 · Mar 6, 2006

That image is so color enhanced that the color of Mars does not appear accurate. While the green areas could be plants, this image alone does not constitute scientific proof that they are indeed plants. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

JonClarke · Mar 6, 2006

There are several pertinent comments. 1) The example is so enhanced that the colours are going to be wrong anyway. We know with a reasonable accuracy what the general colours of Mars are - there is a consensus - thanks to photometry of five different lander missions 2) If the green is correct, why does a greenish tinge have to mean plants? Nots of minerals are green. It's not for nothing we have greenschists and greenstones, after all. 3) If there were plants on mars why would you expect them to use the green photosyntheic pigment chlrophyll? they might use other pigments. 4) Even on earth, many plants are not green because chlorophyll is masked by other pigments. 5) The absence of oxygen means that there is no oxygen-releasing photosynthesis on Mars, so no chlorophyll or equivalent. 6) Non oxygen releasing photosynthesis might be possible, but the surface of Mars is very hostile to life. It's below zero most of the time, dry most of the time, near vacuum, drenched with hard UV,gamma rays solar particles and cosmic rays. 7) Maybe there was once photosynthic life on the surface of Mars but it's unlikely now. Photosyntheic pigments rapidly break down - which is while leaves turn brown in days. So again, we have no reason to expect green (even if real) to = plants on Mars. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

ChrisS057 · Mar 13, 2006

There are some earthly plants that look like rocks such a fungi and lichens. Green rocks are unusual and shapes like that are rare. I wish there were plants on Mars, I really do, it would do wonders to remove our religious leaders stranglehold. I suppose people are paid to put up negative comments or have religious axe to grind and use it to cut down the posters who suggest the existance of life outside the Earth. If religion wins, as it will, we will never discover life on Mars or anywhere else. Ok its a rock. Why is it green and shaped like a plant? What are you paid to destroy the idea?

yevaud · Mar 13, 2006

It's a green blob in an unfocussed image. For all you know, it could be a 1970 Karman Ghia. Ps, no one here, either average user, Moderator, or MCT member, are paid a red cent to be here. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Differential Diagnosis: "I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are." </div>

maxtheknife · Mar 16, 2006

Chriss: What are you paid to destroy the idea? It is understandable why one might think so... <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

seawana1 · Mar 22, 2006

Chriss057 wrote: I wish there were plants on Mars, I really do, it would do wonders to remove our religious leaders stranglehold. I'm going to guess you are an agnostic or an atheist. Unless you believe all religious people are brainwashed and can't think for themselves, the stranglehold idea is ludicrous. All the church going people I know do so because they have chosen what to believe, not because they were told what to believe. If religion wins, as it will, we will never discover life on Mars or anywhere else. It appears you understand that religion is an incredibly powerful force. That being said, it is my opinion that religion will not win against proven facts. Yes there are always some people who cannot see the forest for the trees and will deny any and all proof of some things. We see that happen all the time in the world around us. But the fact is, those people are, geneally speaking, in denial of facts upon which the majority of the populace agrees. I have heard many discussions that revolve around the impact that finding alien life will have on religion. The vast majority of these discussions end with alien life becoming a part of the religious beliefs, not destroying or superceeding them. What are you paid to destroy the idea? Ha! Is this not the last refuge of the cornered person who has lost an intellectual argument? If the argument is lost, you can aleways shift focus by charging the other side with having ulterior, and usually amoral, motives. Nice try, but I can assure you this stance will hold no water.

tatsit · Mar 22, 2006

I was reviewing the pictures from the website below - were the origional poster got his images.... http://www.chrisspages.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ChrissCrazyIdeas/Ideas/Mars/index.htm All I can say is - forget lenses - forget RGB conversions and whatever else you want to throw at these images... They are simply someones creation of 3d landscapes -- its not real. Nothing more then pixiles. Well at least the first set are. the rest are real - well for the most part anyways. My world creator for our game www.conflictomega.com has done landscapes that look better then those. Ill post some of his work when I can catch him and get his link to his images

ChrisS057 · Apr 1, 2006

These images are from a JPL web site, I did not draw them. The overall red colour of all martian images is put on after the pixels arrive by a magenta mask. The red colour of Mars seen in telescopes is due to red iron oxide dust in the atmosphere and may not be apparent on the surface. I have seen a few images before processing that is when the red mask is put on. These show green paches all over the place on the rocks and soil and a blue sky. When you see our planet earth from space it is blue. When you get closer the brown - red colour of continents appears, these show nothing green. On the surface the colour is not blue and the green of vegedation is apparent all round. The same is true of mars. However in my opinion the people in power fix all images to be sure that the ones they release show no sign of anything that shows any sign of life. The people who do this fear that if life is present on Mars and this was widely known by human beings our western civilisation would fail because we would all know "I am not immortal" and that knowlege would so poison our minds that we would not have any life at all. Our economy would crash as people put into a permanent state of fear would just fight and die in utter dispair at the pointlessness of our existance and in our panic our world would erupt in violence robbery and murder. I've been in this state of utter dispair ever since I aquired my knowlege of science. And as the Bible says the tree of knowlege is poison. I wish I had not learned of all the wonders of science because all they have done is reinforced my knowlege of my certain death and the secondary fear of global extinction of humanity is just as great but really it does not matter it is my death I fear. Why was I born, what was my useless existance for. Achieving nothing going nowhere no decendants, what was the point anyway. I don't want to know about evolution or about my death nor do I want to

jatslo · Apr 1, 2006

There are lots of green rocks; kimberlite is green sometimes. Emeralds are green. Some minerals also glow in the dark under black lights, such as opals. Plants on Mars; ?!?! I can see where a plant might live on Mars. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

tomnackid · Apr 5, 2006

OK everyone. Just smile and nod at Chriss. Just smile and nod... (pssst--if you see him going into a post office wearing a trench coat run!)

Plant spotted on old martian image near yogi

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