POLL: Is Abandoning NASA's Moon Plan the Right Choice?

[doublehelix]

President Barack Obama's new 2011 budget request for NASA would boost the agency's budget by $6 billion over the next five years, but also calls on the agency to abandon its current plan to return astronauts to the moon by 2020. The budget request also calls for NASA to embrace commercially built spaceships to send astronauts to the International Space Station and extend that $100 billion orbiting lab's lifetime through 2020.

But is President Obama's space plan a good call?

http://www.space.com/news/white-house-c ... 00201.html

 

[DarkenedOne]

First of all if your not going to provide the funds to do something than you should not do it. It should be anticipated that with these type of programs that they will do 2 to 3 times over budget. Unless congress is willing to pay that type of money than the only remaining question is how much money are you going to waste building new infrastructure that you will never use.

Second of all in the grand scheme of things I think the money could be better spent on possibly subsidizing the emerging private sector Human space flight. That is one thing that I like about any reorganization at NASA. Human space flight has been done only by governments for way to long. It is time to get the private industry more involved. If space tourism can be developed than it will bring in more money and interest into human space flight.

 

[Kansan52]

No Bucks, no Buck Rogers.

You must remember this was decided before the transition team kicked out Administrator Griffin. This administration doesn't want a manned space program. The review commission was stacked to give this result. Any wonder Administrator Griffin was so upset over a year ago. They told him this was the plan all along.

This change sticks us in LEO again while China, Indian, Japan, and Russia go to the Moon.

The decision is simple, when we believe we can tackle big things then good things result. It brings more jobs inside and outside of NASA and a renewed pride for us all. It provides the economy a real growth through new technologies and discoveries. It inspires young people in the sciences and brings us even more in the future.

We are talking about a tiny fraction of the federal budget to be great or to rest on out laurels. President Kennedy's speech still gives me goosebumbs.

So greatness or mediocrity. Obama made his choice and plans to enforce it.

I prefer greatness.

 

[Windbourne]

This will depend on what we announce to do with the 6B AND the dropping of the shuttle AND the drop of constellation. If we are getting private space off the ground with :
1) Bigelow,
2) helping SpaceX, orbital, perhaps SpaceDev to get human launches,
3) creating a new heavy lifter such as Direct Jupiter,
Then YES, it is a great idea.

OTH, if all the money simply flows to current NASA projects, then no, this will be a bad idea.

 

[jb510]

I am SHOCKED! Shocked I tell you! That space.com's readership would so strongly answer that they support continued pursuit of human space flight... Especially given those nonbiasing answers as options in the poll /saracsim

Ridculous poll aside I do support government funded human space flight. I've seen over then decades that certain endevours are simply to big and too dangerous to leave to private industry... Wars being the first but not the last of those endevours. Space flight is still one of those and I suspect will be for at least another couple decades. The private commercial airline industry is falling apart and many are suggesting that it is the model to follow for space flight? That's insane. The reason for invest in space is that it inspires people both indivdually as well as privately. It can unify a country behind a grand and noble pursuit and at the same time motivate an individual to great achievements.

 

[hemojr]

Those are perhaps the worst poll questions I have ever seen.

 

[menellom]

Those are perhaps the worst poll questions I have ever seen.

Yes, yes they are. More ridiculous over-the-top 'the end is nigh' rhetoric. On a related note am I the only one curious how the number of people who answered with the third option DOUBLED over the last ten minutes?

Seriously people, 2pm ET, NASA's holding a big conference to discuss what it's new plans are. How about actually waiting the two and a half hours and see what happens before running out into the streets with the 'end is nigh' sandwich boards on?

EDIT: And another 50 in the two minutes since I posted. Come on, are you freakin kidding me?

 

[xXTheOneRavenXx]

I personally think this could have been handled a lot differently. If they couldn't afford constellation, then why fund and plan such a project from the very beginning? Obama just *crewed NASA big time. If they wanted more commercial involvement, why not have a curtain amount of the constellation project funded for from a variety of commercial companies with the agreement that they be given x-number of slots on board, etc... things like that. No pun intended, but I'm sure it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out an alternate solution now that the program was pushed this far. Scraping the project now just wasted how many millions of tax payer dollars? and the alternate jobs being stepped up in other agencies is just Obama's way of saying "Ya, I just *crewed you out of a job... so go look for another one. Not my problem." He should have listened to NASA from the start.

 

[menellom]

I personally think this could have been handled a lot differently. If they couldn't afford constellation, then why fund and plan such a project from the very beginning?

Ask the Administration that started it.




Edit: A little under 200 new votes in 12 minutes. Come on, no one thinks that's the least bit fishy?

 

[Zipi]

Cancellation of the Constellation program is probably a good thing for NASA. Maybe now they can start developing sensible approach for new NASA rockets since Ares consept was simply bad and doomed. Well ok... Let's say that Ares 5 had some potential, but Ares 1 was a bad design.

I strongly believe that SpaceX will be the key for NASA to return manned spaceflight. And this will probably happen sooner than Ares 1 based consept would have been able to do. So in near future this only speeds up NASA's manned access to LEO.

And what comes to heavy lift vehicle... If we are speaking of "normal" rockets I would like to see NASA to develop something similar like Energia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energia

If we are really thinking forward then something like Skylon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_Engines_Skylon

Maybe this budget decision frees NASA from its ties to companies like ATK and lets them really choose the best technology for new launchers. Of course this will mean that NASA is not able to return man on the moon with timetable earlier planned. A thing which I would love to see happen sooner than later, but for a sensible point of view Obama's solution for the current program design stupidity is a good one.

I'm intentially forgetting Altair lunar lander from this message, since it is not anymore important until the new and better HLV is closer to became reality.

 

[andrewfrith]

I support manned space flight and all the other types of space science as well but I have always believed that the shuttle/station program was an expensive politically motivated program that drew money away from the projects that have always inpsired me, the robotic space probes and space telescopes. We could have had the equivalent of 50 Hubbles for the total costs and maintenance on the shuttle/station to date.

I support allowing private industry to concentrate on achieving affordable and safe manned access to space whilst nasa concentrates on programs that would never be privately pursued, pure space science.

It's a shame the space station was'nt designed as a robotic space platform that would have spurred potential breakthroughs in robotics and would have truly benefitted industry on earth and would have been doable at a fraction of the cost of a manned station.

 

[jimsoho]

Not the Moon

We've been there done that, seen it. Even Buzz Aldrin agrees!

We even have had robotic missions there since Apollo, like Clementine, Lunar Prospector, and now LRO. Finding "ice" on the Moon, is about as important as a child learning that a freezer is for just that! Its time that NASA, and the world "spacefaring" countries, that is those with agencies, form a "World Space Agency".

Along with NASA, the Russians, member countries of the European Space Agency (ESA), Canada, China even Japan, could forge a new alliance, so that we could go not as competitors, but as one, human ambassadors. The next logicial step I feel is Mars! We're not talking science fiction here, but reality! The new Ares/Constellation program would not necessarily end, but could also be used for station visits, and re-supply, and eventually Mars concepts!

 

[dbrass]

FINALLY some sense has been forced down the throat of the genius's who thought that dredging up 50 year old technology was the best way to go to return humans to space. At least the commercial sector will develop new technologies which will push us to near Earth orbit and beyond. Now NASA can go back to using slide rulers and 80286 computers to work on rocket model kits for hobby enthusiasts!

Ok... maybe I'm being harsh here, but cmon! We went from nothing to the moon in less than a decade back in the middle of the last century and now we can't RE-DO this in twice the time and billions upon billions of dollars? Let the commercial sector have a crack at it. If there's money to be made, then this will drive us to the stars faster than anything that a government run agency can. Who knows maybe unobtanium will be found on Mars!

 

[EarthlingX]

Not the Moon

We've been there done that, seen it. Even Buzz Aldrin agrees!

We even have had robotic missions there since Apollo, like Clementine, Lunar Prospector, and now LRO. Finding "ice" on the Moon, is about as important as a child learning that a freezer is for just that! Its time that NASA, and the world "spacefaring" countries, that is those with agencies, form a "World Space Agency".

Along with NASA, the Russians, member countries of the European Space Agency (ESA), Canada, China even Japan, could forge a new alliance, so that we could go not as competitors, but as one, human ambassadors. The next logicial step I feel is Mars! We're not talking science fiction here, but reality! The new Ares/Constellation program would not necessarily end, but could also be used for station visits, and re-supply, and eventually Mars concepts!

India, Korea, ..
India Looks To Global Effort For Manned Mars Mission

 

[menellom]

Not the Moon

We've been there done that, seen it. Even Buzz Aldrin agrees!

We even have had robotic missions there since Apollo, like Clementine, Lunar Prospector, and now LRO. Finding "ice" on the Moon, is about as important as a child learning that a freezer is for just that! Its time that NASA, and the world "spacefaring" countries, that is those with agencies, form a "World Space Agency".

Along with NASA, the Russians, member countries of the European Space Agency (ESA), Canada, China even Japan, could forge a new alliance, so that we could go not as competitors, but as one, human ambassadors. The next logicial step I feel is Mars! We're not talking science fiction here, but reality! The new Ares/Constellation program would not necessarily end, but could also be used for station visits, and re-supply, and eventually Mars concepts!

India, Korea, ..
India Looks To Global Effort For Manned Mars Mission

I like the idea of a WSA, it's a rational approach. Whether or not you'd get people to go for the idea is another question entirely. US likes competing with everyone else, China's still convinced they're landing on Mars in 10 years, there'd be a lot of negotiation involved. And if we're only talking about involving those countries with launch capability it wouldn't be a serious pool of funding - the total combined budget of the five major players after the US (EU, Russia, Japan, China, India) isn't even half of NASA's budget... if we want a serious pool ($50 billion plus) we're gonna need to involve a LOT of countries.


Also BIG UPDATE! Bolden Conference bumped up, starting in 15 minutes!!! Link!
http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/newsaudio/index.html

 

[mgjohnson]

Sorry to tell you this folks......... but it's not 1961 and we are no longer trying to defeat and upstage the Soviets or any other nation in the World at their own games. Our number one focus right now is defeating Islamic extremeists who have no interest whatsoever at putting their holy imram's on the surface of the Moon. Also, America seems stupidly contented in 2010 to let China, India and the rest of the World design and manufacture everything, while we all just sit in our little cubicles all day long performing piddley service sector jobs. Do I believe America is screwed???? DARN RIGHT I DO !!!

 

[Antwerpo]

Sending people to the moon is just plain stupid, humans are not made for space travel. Machines are, machines have done more for science than any astronaut did.

Look at Mars, no human has ever been there, but we already have more info about Mars than about the moon. But hey i'm not American, if the Americans just want to waste money on sending humans into space instead of machines just because the president is a black guy, shows they just deserve their country and the poor shape it is in.

 

[EarthlingX]

Not the Moon

We've been there done that, seen it. Even Buzz Aldrin agrees!

We even have had robotic missions there since Apollo, like Clementine, Lunar Prospector, and now LRO. Finding "ice" on the Moon, is about as important as a child learning that a freezer is for just that! Its time that NASA, and the world "spacefaring" countries, that is those with agencies, form a "World Space Agency".

Along with NASA, the Russians, member countries of the European Space Agency (ESA), Canada, China even Japan, could forge a new alliance, so that we could go not as competitors, but as one, human ambassadors. The next logicial step I feel is Mars! We're not talking science fiction here, but reality! The new Ares/Constellation program would not necessarily end, but could also be used for station visits, and re-supply, and eventually Mars concepts!

India, Korea, ..
India Looks To Global Effort For Manned Mars Mission

I like the idea of a WSA, it's a rational approach. Whether or not you'd get people to go for the idea is another question entirely. US likes competing with everyone else, China's still convinced they're landing on Mars in 10 years, there'd be a lot of negotiation involved. And if we're only talking about involving those countries with launch capability it wouldn't be a serious pool of funding - the total combined budget of the five major players after the US (EU, Russia, Japan, China, India) isn't even half of NASA's budget... if we want a serious pool ($50 billion plus) we're gonna need to involve a LOT of countries.

Agreed. But if at least those space capable countries could agree to share or be able to buy missing tech to avoid duplication of efforts, it would be something.

Also BIG UPDATE! Bolden Conference bumped up, starting in 15 minutes!!! Link!
http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/newsaudio/index.html

Nasa TV doesn't work with my browser (FF 3.5.7) or anything i tried (i don't use IE, not even by accident).
edit.
Solution:
http://uk.real.com/realplayer/

 

[elroy_jetson]

Thankfully, Presidents only serve for a maximum of eight years. Abandoning Bush's deep space initiative (Moon/Mars) is among the most foolish and shortsighted things Obama can do. If we don't go beyond LEO, there's really not much point in having a manned space program. LEO- been there, been doing that - for forty years. Forty freakin' years with only one important manned spaceflight accomplishment - the launch and maintainance missions to the Hubble Space Telescope. I hope the guys trying to build commercial manned launch vehicles plan for going beyond LEO. It's obvious the politicians are oblivious to the importance of space.

 

[menellom]

Agreed. But if at least those space capable countries could agree to share or be able to buy missing tech to avoid duplication of efforts, it would be something.

True, and like I said it's the rational approach. Whether or not you'd get countries like the US and China to agree to it is the question.

 

[dbrass]

Sorry to tell you this folks......... but it's not 1961 and we are no longer trying to defeat and upstage the Soviets or any other nation in the World at their own games. Our number one focus right now is defeating Islamic extremeists who have no interest whatsoever at putting their holy imram's on the surface of the Moon. Also, America seems stupidly contented in 2010 to let China, India and the rest of the World design and manufacture everything, while we all just sit in our little cubicles all day long performing piddley service sector jobs. Do I believe America is screwed???? DARN RIGHT I DO !!!

You said it! What kills me is the mentality that traveling off this little planet isn't that important. How much longer can the Earth support life the way we exploit its resources and continue to populate it. The planet is only so big and eventually we'll exceed the limits of the amount of life that it can support. More likely we'll push this planet to the edge until some disaster occurs and resets life on the planet... again.

 

[belmonty]

Human space flight won't be ending anytime soon. Isn't that why they call it the INTERNATIONAL space station?

I personally think that NASA has been spread too thin and is trying to do too much at once. Has anyone ever watched NASA TV? It's like watching PBS. Lots of educational shows, but very little about the shuttle. I think a moon outpost makes much more sense than the space station. There's a lot less space junk to crash into you, and if any of it does head your way, it's only coming from up above. But they've built the space station, so I think it will be quite a while before the money is spent to build the next great thing.

 

[menellom]

Thankfully, Presidents only serve for a maximum of eight years. Abandoning Bush's deep space initiative (Moon/Mars) is among the most foolish and shortsighted things Obama can do.

Expecting NASA to replace the shuttle, launch missions to the Moon, build a lunar base, and start on a Mars mission all within 15 years and all without a budget increase or any real government support... no THAT would be the most foolish and shortsighted things a president could do. The last administration expected NASA to do just that.

 

[Zipi]

White House facts page about NASA & new proposed budget:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/factsheet ... ment_nasa/

More:

National Aeronautics and Space Administration: "The Administration proposes to cancel the Constellation Systems program intended to return astronauts to the Moon by 2020 and replaces it with a bold new approach that embraces the commercial space industry, forges international partnerships, and develops the game-changing technologies needed to set the stage for a revitalized human space flight program and embark on a 21st Century program of space exploration.

from page 18: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy ... ts/trs.pdf

 

[kgettys]

Been there! Done That! Don’t Have To Do It Again!

We have already been to the moon. So let us now focus on new and cheaper ways to get into and traveling for long distances thru space. XPrizes are great for encouraging science and competition. Space Elevators, Space Cannons, Space Colonies, and Solar Sails are but a few of the technologies that should be encouraged! And keeping the ISS alive even beyond 2020 allows for and encourages more International (and multi-corporation) collaborations!