POLL: Is Abandoning NASA's Moon Plan the Right Choice?

[heroineworshipper]

You can't blame him for being pragmatic. The voters want guaranteed home values, not technology.

 

[WayneGoode]

The New Meaning of NASA

NASA No Access to Space Anymore

 

[kravjar666]

No one wants a moon program more than me.

Unfortunately, Bush laid off this bomb on Obama deliberately. I could announce that we're flying to tau ceti in 3 years, but if we don't have the bucks, then it's not happening.

I agree with others that the space access technology is changing very very rapidly. We are in danger of spending mucho bucks on heavy lift capability that 1) is mostly there and 2) will be antiquated and overly expensive.

I think that the annoucement was completely unsurprising given that the whole thing was unfunded, and there was the 3 ton elephant in the room (the space station) that is also unfunded.

Still, I wish the space program got even a fraction of the military budget.

When are we going to establish the Federation?

 

[mnwcsult]

First I did not bother with the poll. Silly leading questions of no value. Like having an argument with my wife and here are the choices.

What we get to do is sit back and watch Russia, China and India "go broke" trying. We are broke make no mistake on that. I always wanted the space program to have lofty goals. But unlike televisions Star Trek there is no Federation to pool our money with. And we all know that the moon is barely attainable for one country. No single country on earth is going to have a manned landing on Mars within the next 30 years and maybe not this century.

Yes we maybe missing out on some science but the United States is never into exploration for the sake of exploration. The moon would have to be expoitable and perhaps profitiable.

You all know it, so perhaps you should cut entitlements, raise taxes, stop driving your cars, walk more, get healther, put more students into the STEM programs and let them solve our current problems.

Then we get to go into space in a big way.

 

[Lancelot_64]

Abandoning the moon is a terrible choice.
There are ways to change Nasa's business model and still work to retain Constellation's goals and vision.
Why isnt anyone asking private companies/individuals if they would like to pay Nasa to take them to the moon?
Just a thought - people may have the solution and problem(s) turned around..

If this would be crowning achievement is dropped, it will further depress the nation's mood and self confidence.
The required spend is a drop in the bucket in contrast to the entire budget.. cut costs elsewhere.
I want my tax dollars spent to advance our civilization not to pay for my colleagues endless greed.

 

[starbaseaurora]

This administration is determined to take the USA out of every leadership position in the world that does not directly involve the decisions and agenda of the 'anointed one'.

A low earth orbit space station makes a lot of sense for many manned missions. A moon base makes a lot of sense for many other manned missions, but few un-manned missions. The potential for manufacturing of both fuel and material on the moon's surface is real. The advantages of a moon based telescope for gaining knowledge of our universe let alone finding earth crossing asteroids and comets (moon based launch of interventions?) are many. If man is to ever colonize another planet (Mars?) the lessons learned building and operating a manned moon base are paramount.

If China does not foreclose on our debit first, I am sure it will be happy to take the lead in sending men to the moon and beyond. :ugeek: Of course, once they have exclusive manned access to the moon, we will discover that He3 is the ideal fuel for our fusion energy dreams.

 

[Gravity_Ray]

How can there be 2065 votes, when there has been 247 views of this topic? :lol:

 

[Neuma]

1) Heavy Lift is a Required Technology.
2) Industrialization of the moon is critical technology for fuel, supplies and heavy components.
3) The Chinese will begin to colonize the moon for industrialization in the `20s unless the U.S. does so first.

Do not cancel the moon / Mars Constellation program. Bring ESA, CSA, JAXA on board to help fund it.
SpaceX is great, and I applaud it. But keep the Constellation program until it is PROVEN.
Is this expensive insurance - Not in the grand scheme of things.
Will it affect the budget deficit - won't even be visible

Obama has just sealed the Democrat's fate. The Republicans will control both houses next year.
The Constellation program will continue, with perhaps a brief pause in 4Q2010, and then, only if Obama can get such a budget request through.

The moon is there for a reason - as a stepping stone to space.

 

[BruceJoyner]

To abandon NASA's Moon Plan is not the right thing to do. We are living creative beings that logically realize that we need to expand into space...to put a base on the moon..to put colonies on the moon,then move on to Mars and do the same thing...our destiny will be determined on our colonizing our neighboring planets and moons...The stars are next for exploration...and this is not science fiction...our future as a race then will be secure...

 

[MrRightStuff]

Start recognizing the acronym ULA which stands for United Launch Alliance. Their LO2 + LH2 fueled Delta 4 Heavy is a good candidate to NASA's quest for commercial crew transport. Let Space X and Orbital Scineces haul the cargo but I believe that ULA’s rockets are the only proven safe transport for humans!

 

[rcsplinters]

It seems the debushification of America continues as there is no logical rationale for such an irresponsible decision. I can't see this in any other headline than: 'US President O'Bama Abandons America's Leadership in Space'. Instead of a nation of explorers, we are now a nation of hitchhikers. Instead of leaders, we are followers. Instead of a nation of innovators, we are, well, I can't even say emulators. Basically, we just quit over pocket change in comparison with the overall national budget. All our eggs are now in a basket that's never held an egg.

I hate to think I'm now a member of the generation who quit. The scary part is that our leadership in space is now hands of Congress.

God speed to our future cosmonaunts.

 

[support4pc]

This is how an out of control WHite House tries to cover it's wild spending habits!

 

[ratjones]

NASA is a government agency... Government agencies by and large tend to waste a good deal of money with no tangible results.
Do we want lots of money wasted on "Apollo 2.0" or "Apollo on Steroids"... which is simply a modernized resurrection of outdated technology?

Let the private sector have at it for once! People like Burt Rutan who are capable of translating vision into reality far better and faster than our bureaucratically strapped government should be allowed to bring their expertise into play. Look what Mr. Rutan has done with his Spaceship I... a reentry system that functions by "featuring the wings" - rather than a non-reusable ablative heat shield. This is thinking out of the box - and this is what we need from many people to stay in the race to explore our solar system with a manned presence.

We need to have many viable ways to ferry men into LOE, perhaps to a transfer station that could be used as a first stop to another larger facility positioned at the L5 point (Bigelow Corp could be involved big time here)... from where large vehicles can be built and then flown to a variety of destinations within our solar system. Putting men into a pointy tin can just won't cut it!

 

[DVCKEV]

I think Obama is making one of his biggest mistakes in doing this. I am totally against this and hope that congress and the senate can somehow stop him. And that is coming from a blue massachusetts democrat!!! I think this is nothing more than urinating on the dream of John Kennedy to see Americans leading the way in space flight AND further eroding needed jobs in this country. Think about how it will feel to see the Chinese setting foot on the moon and how diminished we will be as a nation. I am very sad to see this happen.

 

[GregW75]

I don't have a problem with them cutting out the moon goal. This new rocket was going to be very late and way overbudget. I don't see how or why a reliable rocket would need so much money and take so long to build when it is the same thing we used 40 years ago.

People complaining about it are the companies and employees that will be losing their jobs when the shuttles are retired and there is nothing to replace them. They will have to go work at a private space firm for probably 1/3 of the salary.

But I can say that I'm very reluctant to give the space duties to a private company. Let's face it, Nasa hasn't built ****. They contract everything out and oversee the projects. Without that oversight, we are depending on private sector to get to space and I for one think that is as jackedup as you can get. Would you privatize the Army or Navy? Look how well that did in Iraq and Afghanistan (Blackwater).

It is a bad idea to rely on the private sector. A worthy goal of manned missions to an asteroid could give us greater insights about their composition and ideas on how to protect earth from rocky projectiles coming our way.

 

[GregW75]

If the return to the moon missions are of such great value, how should we fund this? How do you expect to pay for it? Raise taxes on the rich to build your ships? Cut welfare payments to women and children so a scientist can dig up a rock on the moon? (Not sure but I think during the French Revolution, that scientist would have got killed with torches and pitch forks) Find a way to pay for it first.

 

[jayardine]

Absolutely Yes!
We have more than enough space-faring Species to deal with already.
If you want to stay on your own planet and miss all the fun, that's fine by us.
:mrgreen:

 

[prometheus7]

Come on people. NASA needs lots of help. I agree with the administration that the Constellation program has a huge cost overrun with no significant return on investment. We are doing great at robotic space exploration at this point in history and I say we continue to improve upon it and continue with new missions. WE all agree that significant R&D in better and new types of space propulsion systems would be necessary to carry out our long term exploration goals of traveling the great distances to the various Moons and Planets in this solar system to really explore what is going on there, and also eventually attempt a mission to Alpha Centauri B. In my opinion we need something along the lines of the Large Hadron Collider (CERN) to be built in space to be used as a propulsion system to be able to go to Alpha Centauri B. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[j1srus]

I couldn't disagree more with Antwerpo that " Sending people to the moon is just plain stupid, humans are not made for space travel. Machines are, machines have done more for science than any astronaut did. "

As I see it, it was man himself that dreamed of going into space, not some machine. And it was man himself that designed his machines to get him there. I am not knocking machines as I absolutely love the Mars Rovers, but do you think if a man was driving that rover it would still be stuck in a sand trap? Using this logic, wouldn't the world be better off with just machines and no people? I mean what's the point of man if man is not needed. The MATRIX enterains me but it just doesn't inspire me like the American Apollo program did. I want that again. I want us to live a dream and not just crunch mechanical numbers.

 

[EarthlingX]

This sounds like fun:
Destination Phobos: humanity's next giant leap (New Scientist)

 

[edguy99]

I dont support this at all.

 

[hsmathteacher]

I understand that LEO should probably be handled by private enterprise. However, it seems to me that manned deep space exploration should be handled by NASA. It is not profitable, which is exactly the reason it should be. The benefits of these high-risk and high-costs endeavors are not easily quantified in the early stages. It is true that this is not 1961. We do not recognize that we are in the middle of a Cold War or space race. We are if you consider Russia, Chnia, India, etc. It is also true that under the guise of free trade and comparative advantage we have allowed our manufacturing jobs...and the associated engineering and programming jobs head off shore. Nevertheless, I do believe that manned deep-space exploration is an investment that we need to make if we have any hopes of regaining our technological lead in the world. Why can we spend billions of dollars to bail out banks, car companies, ACORN, etc., but we can't invest in our future technology?

If the funding cut we merely an effort to go back to the drawing board and develop something more advanced than Apollo era technology, I could understand it. It did strike me as strange that we were going to send folks to Mars in an Apoolo-like capsule. Talk about a numb fanny. I fear something worse. This seems to me to be an end to manned space exploration by the United States. Are we content to let the Russians and Chinese take the lead? Frankly, the thought disgusts me!

It seems to me that this was President Obama's desired outcome from the very beginning. I believe that in one of his early campaign speeches he stated that we don't need NASA engineers if children can't read. (I could not find this quote by Google.) I didn't vote for the guy....but is this the change people were hoping for? If so, I better find another country. As a high school math teacher, it is hard to express the joy I feel knowing that I will be training students to aspire to careers in the glorious and challenging fast-food industry.

 

[JonClarke]

So much for seeing people on the Moon in my kid's life time.

 

[Imshadi]

People just don't seem to notice just how important, decisive and flat wrong this decision is historically. And I mean this in the most important sense of the long run of America as a civilization. The kind of big picture that we sometimes fail to see when pressed by the need of just making it through the now.

If NASA doesn't finish developing the Ares rocket, America is completely out of the map as a space faring nation now that the Shuttles have flat lined.The future that everyone has always envisioned for America and the for the entire world is now gone. It just won't happen. Something else might, but we are no longer in control of that future.

If in some hundreds of years from now there are still any humans preserving the miracle of earth life and intelligence in other worlds I hope at least that they will be the descendants of today's Indians or the Chinese, because the American civilization will be as forgotten as the Romans, and for all it's glory, it will have achieved nothing.

Without a local means of reaching space, the know-how that NASA has accumulated will be gradually lost. The next time they want to build a rocket, if it's too long after, they will have to reinvent everything. This is the end of the space vision that started with JFK. Putting satellites in orbit and sending a robot or two each decade to the planets will simply lead to a total loss of interest on the side of the public (if there's any left) and the eventual and final demise of NASA and all that it has ever stood for.

Obama has truly disappointed me for his lack of vision. He may think that sacrificing a long term sense of purpose for immediate survival is a practical thing. He probably can not realize that sometimes all that keeps a nation alive is a sense of purpose.

Or maybe I haven't noticed what he already has... that this civilization is over and we are just living among its ruins. He just decided to preside over it's funeral.

Only NASA could have done space exploration. The private sector will only be there to lift satellites and provide the rich with flashy vacations to be read in the gossip magazines. Because that is the only thing that can be done for profit. Real exploration requires a higher motivation.

 

[Lancelot_64]

* Why do people keep saying that Constellation is existing or Apollo technology?
If one reads http://www.nasa.gov/ares you would understand that all components are current state of the art and have been updated with modern technology, basically re-engineered. The upper stage uses the only rocket engine that is legacy equipment. The shape of the vehicle is the same as apollo, so what? Airplanes havent changed much in fundamental shape for years either and for a good reason.. they still need wings lol.. What did you expect Ncc1701?

* Why do people keep discounting Constellation by saying going to the moon is an objective we met 50 years ago? Come on folks you cant compare Constellation objectives with Apollo it is not apples to apples.. The author was just trying to be flippant, obviously.. although not accurate. The current return to the moon IS to stay long term and build permanent residence and to test micro-systems that would allow insitu resource replenishment. Uhm that does not sound like apollo to me at all.. Apollo simply went to 1.) prove they could 2.) to collect samples and perform limited science. Constellation on the other hand wants go and stay long term, learn to live and work on another celestial body, in preparation for future exploration challenges.

The two topics above I picked out of the formal reply from the White House as to why Constellation needed to be trashed. Typical of modern half cocked statements construed just to win popularity and pacify the unknowing public. As it is in these modern times the statements are not accurate nor do they return any value.. to anyone.. Cheap very cheap. The new promises made were overplayed/grandstanded and blown totally out of proportoion in their value. I think the White House statement was a bit severe and out of touch with reality. Once again poor Nasa is the whipping boy.

Why continue and throw good money after bad? Might as well kill Nasa and send a generous donation to someone who knows how to use it - The Soviets, JAXA, ESA ?

Obviously I am being sarcastic as I believe Nasa to be a premier Space Operations Expert in every capacity.

Remember this.. more satellites and un-manned probes are not going to inspire people; I am ashamed to tell our children that we have backed off of this supreme challenge.. Mr. Kennedy understood that to inspire the world was priceless.. He also understood that to vent ambitions in a benign fashion was productive and priceless as well. We can learn from his wisdom.