Radiation & bone loss

docm · Jul 19, 2006

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060718_radiation_bones.html Time to get working on plasma shields; http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn9567-plasma-bubble-could-protect-astronauts-on-mars-trip.html At a level of about 10 rad/year in interplanetary space this is nothing to ignore. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bonzelite · Jul 19, 2006

yes, i wonder how they will work this out for Mars missions with people? they'd be gone perhaps for 2 years. i'm a total Mars geek. and want to see us colonize it.

mkofron · Jul 19, 2006

Of course look who sponsored the study. Perhaps they want some fat government contract to supply astronauts with their meds.

docm · Jul 19, 2006

Actonel only strengthens the outer regions of cortical bone, the thick outer shell. It can't 'fix' the loss of trabecular bone (the spongy stuff). Nothing can; it doesn't grow back. Take that from an old anatomy/osteology instructor. This problem wasn't anticipated at the start of the study, so Procter and Gamble doesn't have a dog in this fight. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bonzelite · Jul 19, 2006

aahh yes, Proctor and Gamble. big pharm business. good eye <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> yep (sigh). it's always about money. inasmuch as i like what having money can enable me to do, i hate it at the same time. so the meds cannot save the bone, though? ultimately, it's going to get lost?

qso1 · Jul 19, 2006

Its early yet in the Mars game. If we finally go, and I hope thats before I croak, or get too old to remember what Mars is. There will probably be supportive studies, or at the very least. Studies like this could lead to selection of a propulsion system based on the VASIMR research which could lead to a propulsion system that will allow for three month transits to and from Mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

docm · Jul 19, 2006

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />bonzelite said; so the meds cannot save the bone, though? ultimately, it's going to get lost?<hr /></blockquote> The trabecular bone especially, which is the rub. Trabecular bone is what gives a bone much of its strength, something like rebar is to concrete only more so. This is a *real big deal* as the study indicates one good burst can do the damage, and it's irreparable. Shortening the trip with VASIMR or some other drive would help a bit, but a burst can happen any time including right after it leaves Earths magnetosphere. All speed does is improve the odds a bit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bonzelite · Jul 19, 2006

do you expect that they'd send dogs and pigs to Mars first? you think there'd be public outcry to the inhumanity of that? the bone loss issue just seems gigantic. not to mention muscular atrophy. look at russians who come back from 9 months being in space and people have to carry them away.

docm · Jul 19, 2006

What about Dr. Valeri Polyakov? He was in Mir for 438 days, and it took him a long time to recover. Carry him off on a stretcher, they did. Muscle atrophy is manageable. You can use a rotating spaceship or one of those bicycle-centrifuges. The latter gives dual benefits; exercise and syn-gravity plus it follows the K.I.S.S. principle. The radiation/bone issue is a whole other kettle of fish. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bonzelite · Jul 19, 2006

wow.

qso1 · Jul 19, 2006

I doubt they would send animals to Mars becuase as you mentioned, there would probably be a public outcry against such research. The Russians coming back are suffering bone loss from being in zero gravity rather than radiation. This ma be resulting from not excercising as much as they should. IIRC, Shannon Lucid came back from a long term mission in much better shape than the Russians because she stuck to excercise regimens. Future Mars crew requirements may include demonstrated tendencies towards being a fitness buff. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

qso1 · Jul 19, 2006

Another thing is that if the VASIMR approach is adapted. The transit time to Mars will be relatively short. On Mars itself, they will have some gravity to prolong any side effects of zero "G" and then the return trip will be three months. IMO, excercise is the key to fending off zero "G" induced bone loss and short trip times minimizes the radiation loss effects. NTR propelled missions will involve six to eight month transits. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

alokmohan · Jul 19, 2006

Is radiation the cause or zero G is the cause?In any case bone loss is serious.In earth iitself we have bone loss.Possibly it may be due to steroids.It is seperate field in itself.Before going to mars we may read.

3488 · Jul 19, 2006

This issue must be addressed. Clearly a diet rich in Calcium would be ideal, so the obvious choice would be dairy products, cheese, milk, yoghurt, etc. However the problem would be the high cholesterol content as prevalent in all dairy products, even those labled low fat. The astronauts, obviously would need to take very regular excersise, in an attempt to ward off muscle wastage, but I suppose calcium rich pills would be possible. I do not know if the body would absorb that or if it would just pass through, without the calcium being part of a food stuff? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

alokmohan · Jul 19, 2006

Calcium intake is not easy.Tolerence to milk is must. http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol02/issue2/bones

bonzelite · Jul 19, 2006

then no lactose intolerant passengers or astronauts. i will never go to mars, then. i'm lactose intolerant. damn. i never realized that reality until now. i'll never go to mars <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" />

docm · Jul 19, 2006

Calcium citrate works well for bone supplementation provided other supplements (vitamins/minerals etc.) are also used. The real danger is the radiation induced damage, which is irreparable. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bonzelite · Jul 19, 2006

then maybe i have a chance! i'll just wear my radiation suit and take my supplements. mars is back to me <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

bonzelite · Jul 19, 2006

yes, i've heard enshrouding the craft in water would stave off acute radiation absorbtion.

docm · Jul 19, 2006

Bigelows modules have water shields integrated into their outer shells, providing at least some full-time protection. IIRC NASA's TransHab only had them around the central core for emergency protection, that is if you had a warning which is iffy at best. IMO Mars ship design should start with habs very much like what Bigelow is doing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Swampcat · Jul 19, 2006

"Bigelows modules have water shields integrated into their outer shells..." With all due respect, I don't believe this is true. Do you have a link? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

qso1 · Jul 19, 2006

alokmohan: Is radiation the cause or zero G is the cause?In any case bone loss is serious... Me: That was the reason I was outlining a short transit time vehicle based on VASIMR propulsion technology. 3 month transits would reduce the problems associated with zero "G" bone loss and radiation exposure all in one whack, while getting humans to Mars that much faster. Artificial "G" is not likely to be an option on a Mars craft because designers will have to weigh the cost of incorporating even a spinning craft vs one thats non spinning. Of course, this might not happen because they may settle for chem propulsion over plasma for the same cost tradeoff reasons. However, if they go chemical, or even NTR. Your back to the radiation bone loss problem even if you solve the zero "G" one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

sphynx · Jul 20, 2006

Respect the disembark of a human being in Mars all the informative media, and the forums specialized that been nourished of its informations, they deviate the attention on questions of budget, political decisions, logistic questions, that the ship, that the driving force, etc. etc. and subsequently they say that due to those objections, the Mission to Mars will be deferred to the year 2025. All the questions previously mentioned, a decade ago that already they have been resolved, if the trip is not produced is because the main one not yet has been resolved: that is to say as to assure the survival of the human being to the devastating effects of the gamma radiation. The Nasa does not have innocence in the manipulation of information, knows about the importance to maintain lit the popular attention on "the trip to Mars", while in letter very girl one must deduce that do not yet they have acceptable a single idea of how assure that the human agency can survive in the space. It is known that all the human beings that have left al space have suffered a change in their chromosomes due to the incident of the rays range, and especially al component of iron of the same.if has been light, due to that the human missions have not set apart themselves too much neither for a long time of the protection of the terrestrial magnetic field. Different will be when the Man venture toward the planet Mars. The damage that is registered in the alive beings submitted to the cosmic rays is called disorder telomérico by reference to the molecular structures, located in the extremes of the DNA, called "telómeros". The telómeros are long chains of repetitive DNA that shorten itself each time that a cell is divided. When the telómeros return too short, the life of the cell is finished; cannot be divided more, so enters a state that is called "senescencia replicativa". Due to the telómeros, the majority of the human cells only

Radiation & bone loss

docm

Guest

bonzelite

Guest

mkofron

Guest

docm

Guest

bonzelite

Guest

qso1

Guest

docm

Guest

bonzelite

Guest

docm

Guest

bonzelite

Guest

qso1

Guest

qso1

Guest

alokmohan

Guest

3488

Guest

alokmohan

Guest

bonzelite

Guest

docm

Guest

bonzelite

Guest

bonzelite

Guest

docm

Guest

Swampcat

Guest

qso1

Guest

sphynx

Guest

Similar threads

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Share this page