Remember Phobos 2?

anthmartian · Jun 23, 2007

I know this is somewhat of a random post, but i just finished looking at these images, and felt a few others may be interested. Elderly members such as myself may remember the Phobos 2 mission. Sent to Mars, or rather its moon Phobos by the Soviet Union. It was to land on Phobos, hop around, and learn much about the moon. Unfortunately, it failed on final approach to Phobos. having limped most of the way to Mars on back up power, following the demise of Phobos 1 earlier in its journey. I am not going to go too deeply here into the alleged UFO incident, which some conspiracy theorists suggest is why Phobos failed. ( don't get me started on my rants at those people. ) The reason i am posting is i have worked on some images from the Mission. This is a view of the Mariner valley, and surrounding area. Phobos 2 took two images here, one red channel filter, and one thermal IR image. I combined them to gather together the data from both images. These are false colour. However i have made an effort to try and go for a natural look, apart from the green and red panorama. On that particular image Green represents the Thermal IR, and red, the red channel. This is a scaled down collection. I have full res versions on my site, as well as a couple not shown here. http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth I have enjoyed taking another look at this mission. It was an extremely exciting mission back in 1988. There was some interesting pictures taken too. Well worth somebody more talented than myself taking a look. BTW, the dark streak seen, is an eclipse shadow by Phobos itself. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

JonClarke · Jun 23, 2007

I was devastated when Phobos 1 and 2 failed. I remember cross the road to the shops shaking my head and saying out loud "That is so unfair!" At least Phobos 2 returned a lot of useful infortmation about Mars, even though it did not achieve the primary mission goals of landing on Phobos itself. It is good to see the images being processed using modern technology, keep it up. Cheers Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Jun 23, 2007

Couple of more sites with reprocessed Phobos 2 images. http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000987/ http://www.strykfoto.org/phobos2.htm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

anthmartian · Jun 24, 2007

Thanks for those links Jon, very useful. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> It certainly was very unfair, the Soviets were very unlucky at Mars. Seems strange when you compare it with their success at Venus. As you say, at least Phobos 2 left us with some stunning views, and useful data before its demise. As far as Soviet missions to Mars go, it was outstanding. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

JonClarke · Jun 24, 2007

We can only hope that Fobos-Grunt has better success in two years time. However, Russian instruments have flown on a number of international missions, including Mars Express and Mars Odyssey, and very successfully too. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Jun 24, 2007

Hi, Yes this is most interesting. I am back again finally. Yes it always sturck me as being weird that the Soviets were so successful at far more hostile Venus than at Mars. Apparently if Phobos 1 succeded, Phobos 2 may have repeated the mission at Deimos instead. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Jun 24, 2007

I have ponded this as well. Without official evidence, I syspect that the main reason was that the USSR sent the early versions of new spacecraft to Mars hence the high rate of failure. The early Venus probes used the same bus as the early Mars probes, but flew later. The later Mars probes and the later Veneras were the same. Behind this lies a range of other issues. One was the apparent Soviet philosophy of inflight testing and acceptance of a high rate of failure early in the mission series. The was was an apparent desire for achieving space spectaculars against the US. By the time the early probes were mature enough to fly a successful misison to Mars the US had already achieved a successful flyby (Mariner IV and repeating this would not have had propoganda value. Most of the early Mars probes also carried a descent capsule, but Mariner IV also showed that the atmosphere was so thin that they would not have worked as built and could not be sufficiently redesigned to do so. A Mars 8 and 9 might well have worked as advertised, but would have seemed like small beer compared with the much larger and more sophisticated Vikings. They would have course have generated much useful data, but that was of secondary importance to the political masters of the USSR. With Venus there were no real comparable US missions and so the pressure to achieve space spectaculars and to avoid appearing second rate and so the USSR was able to send an evolving series of ever more capable probes to the planet. With Phobos 1/2 the problem was budget cuts, inexperienced management, and perhaps a unrealistically massive and complex spacecraft that had to meet a very tight launch window (1988 or never). Had there been the flexibility of slipping to 1990 the spacecraft may well have received the testing that would have made the mission a success. Phobos 1 died because a simple programing error. Phobos 2 possibly likewise (but the Lavochkjin engineers <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

kosmonavtkaa · Jun 24, 2007

Another interesting site: The Soviet Exploration of Venus and Interplanetary Communication forum (both by Don P. Mitchell) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

yevaud · Jun 24, 2007

The Soviets did some amazing work. Anyone in the know in the West didn't sneer at their work. Top-notch Astrophysicists, Mathematicians, Engineers. It was the system that was screwy, not the people. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Differential Diagnosis: "I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are." </div>

Aetius · Jun 24, 2007

Great sites. Thanks!

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

Hi Yevaud. Yes that was very true. There was nothing wrong with the Russian engineers & scientists. The political system was hell bent on quick results, did not enable the Russian engineers to perform @ their very best. Too many people in non jobs, telling those with proper jobs what to do. As Jon Clarke also said, the Mars probes were built on earlier designs than the Veneras. Hi Jon. I hope that too, PhobosGrunt does not turn out to be too ambitious & ends in failure. I like you really want it to succeed. Russia can do this, lets hope that she has learnt from previous mistakes. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

anthmartian · Jun 25, 2007

Don Mitchells work is amazing. Had those images of Venus been in circulation all these years then i believe the Venera's would have recieved much more exposure than they have. I am not talking about people of the type who visited here, but many members of the general public do not even know the surface of Venus has been reached! I am in total agreement, i believe the Soviets pulled off some fantastic achievements. However, lack of media coverage to this day have them seen as very minor players. If you "Google" for Venus, putting yourself in the shoes of somebody who has little knowledge of space exploration, then you are hard pressed to come across evidence of the Venera's. Which i believe is a very sad thing. There is definately a very skewed perception of the USSR's achievements, especially when you consider they were the first to land on the Moon, Mars, and Venus. Europe of course landed on Titan first ( Another fact the general public probably know nothing about ). Which leaves the U.S with Eros as their only first in robotic landings. But, the public perception certainly does not reflect that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

alokmohan · Jun 25, 2007

Phobos was result of socalled great fall,USSR decling stage.

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

Very true alokmohan. The USSR at that time could not decide what it was, the Soviet Union was in its death throes. Very true also Anthmartian. The US did succeed in getting the first humans into orbit & on the surface of the Moon. Regarding uncrewed landing probes, yes, the USSR beat the USA to them all except 433 Eros & Comet Tempel 1. Huygens although European, remember was delivered by America. NASA launched, JPL did all of the navigation, etc, to enable Huygens to land safely, so really that was Europe / USA combined. Further images from Phobos 2. Phobos. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

Phobos again from Phobos 2. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

Guess what??? Phobos from Phobos 2 again. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

Mars limb in very top left corner & Jupiter, bottom right from Phobos 2. Sunday 19th February 1989. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

Phobos from closer in by Phobos 2. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

Final image ever returned from Phobos 2. Phobos terminator. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Jun 25, 2007

Fantastic images! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

I agree completely with you Jon. What a crying shame that it failed, before the Phobos landing. We could have had the first surface panoramas from an asteroidal type body (Phobos a possible captured Type C Carbonaceous asteroid) & real close ups by now. True NEAR / Shoemaker landed & provided closeups of 433 Eros & Hayabusa had landed & returned closeups of 25143 Itokawa, but actual surface landscapes of such a body, that would had been a notable first for the USSR. Better luck with PhobosGrunt. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

CalliArcale · Jun 25, 2007

This is such a sweet thread. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> The Soviet/Russian Mars program was a lot more ambitious than a lot of folks in the West realize. It's a pity that so many of them failed; Mars' reputation as the "Bermuda Triangle" of the solar system certainly owes a lot to the Soviet failures. I think the higher-ups tended to believe in the mythical man-month -- that is, that you can get something done faster just by throwing more people at it, with an added boost from the Soviet system that they thought it could be further hastened by threatening the engineers or simply demanding that it be done more quickly. There were a lot of failures which might have been successes had the engineers been permitted to take a bit more time. This is probably because the higher-ups weren't all that interested in science or even technological advances. They were interested in publicity stunts and one-upping the Americans. That's not to say the higher-ups were totally oblivious to the realities of engineering. They endorsed a standard practice that is perhaps best described by a line from "Contact": why buy one when you can have two at twice the price? They certainly understood redundancy, so most missions went in pairs. Unfortunately, because of all the haste, both in a pair all too often ended up failing due to a common design flaw. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> But I have endless respect for what the engineers accomplished, because really they pulled off some miracles considering the pressure they were under. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

anthmartian · Jun 25, 2007

CalliArcale : I do agree with what you're saying. However, it does seem that the logic behind your post seems to have been turned on its head when we get to manned flight. However black the higher ups in the Soviet Union are painted, you could argue they were more concerned about their cosmonauts than the U.S was with its astronauts. The USSR could maybe have beaten the Americans, certainly to the achievements of the Apollo 8 flight, using Proton as i understand it. Proton was not man rated, and the Soviets would not take the risk. The Americans certainly took a risk, and many see Apollo 8 as a very risky venture. So, it seems the Soviets did go all out for "firsts" and for the glory of the propaganda which went with it but they did have a measure of responsibility with flesh and blood. Unlucky though if you're a robot space probe! ( I am not a huge fountain of knowledge regarding manned flights, so excuse me if i have my facts wrong. ) let's just hope now that in these days of more freely available information passing back and forth, and the sharing of knowledge, that the Mars "Bermuda triangle" tag is lost forever. I really cannot believe it is approaching 20 years ago that i was following Phobos 1 & 2. Although i of course do not mourn the demise of the Soviet Union, it is a shame that things suffered with their space program. With the Phobos missions heading towards Mars, the Buran/Energia flight happening in 1988, and Mir up there too. things looked very promising indeed, and very exciting. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

3488 · Jun 25, 2007

How about this one? Phobos with Marsshine from Phobos 2. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 25, 2007

Andrew, thanx for all these pictures. It's good to realize that most of what we know of Mars' moons came from these spacecfraft, precious little has been done since then that I am aware of. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

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