Science channel now on Titan, Mars, Jupiter

[newtonian]

Just to let you all know that this is space week on the Science channel on TV, 284 on DirecTV. <br /><br />Right now and repeated at 5:00 AM CT is an update on the Huygens probe on Titan, also Cassini observations.<br /><br />At 3:00 AM CT (also repeated Wednesday) a 2005 special on the Mar's rovers mission beginning January 2004.<br /><br />At 4:00 AM CT (also repeated Wednesday), a 2005 special on what has been learned about Jupiter in the last 25years from space probes.<br /><br />Feel free to post your comments.<br /><br />For now, I found it interesting that radio telescopes were called on to retrieve data from Huygens directly since the relay from Cassini on one channel malfunctioned.<br /><br />Apparently virtually all the data was recieved by radio telescope, something they did not expect would be possible!<br /><br />Also, apparently ethane formed from two degraded methanes has been measured on Titan.<br /><br />And, from an additional update on a recent space.com article, Huygens apparently landed very near a shore in a sort of mud- a soft landing.<br /><br />

 

[mooware]

<font color="yellow">For now, I found it interesting that radio telescopes were called on to retrieve data from Huygens directly since the relay from Cassini on one channel malfunctioned.</font><br /><br />I thought this was because Huygens transmitted much longer than anticipated.. "As the world Turns" as it were, other radio telescopes had to be called in so they could continue to recieve data transmitted from Huygens via Cassinni.<br /><br />Or did I miss something?<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"Apparently virtually all the data was recieved by radio telescope, something they did not expect would be possible! "</font><br /><br />Except for the data on channel A of course..<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Also, apparently ethane formed from two degraded methanes has been measured on Titan. </font><br /><br />why not? Methane I believe is a carbon atom orbited by 4 hydrogen atoms, Sunlight knocks one or two of the hydrogen atoms off, the two carbon atoms link up and make an ethane atom. As I understand it anyway. <br /><br /><font color="yellow">And, from an additional update on a recent space.com article, Huygens apparently landed very near a shore in a sort of mud- a soft landing. "</font><br /><br />I read the same thing.<br /><br /><br />

 

[newtonian]

mooware - I'm sorry I did not note your response.<br /><br />I will locate and listen to the broadcast again.<br /><br />However, I reported to you what was stated on the broadcast.<br /><br />It was the channel A data that was retrieved by radio telescope, according to the broadcast.

 

[newtonian]

OK, I am watching my tape of the broadcast.<br /><br />Haven't got to the part about the missing channel A data adn the call on radio telescopes around the world to try to retrieve it.<br /><br />So, I will post some of the other very interesting information as I resee it: <br /><br />A Picture is shown that is interpreted to be possibly the shore of a methane or ethane lake (ocean). Rain is hypothesized (ethane or methane).<br /><br />A number of scientists are interviewed.<br /><br />This broadcast is on the very day of Huygens touchdown on Titan.<br /><br />to be continued<br />

 

[newtonian]

Huygens Science channel broadcast.<br /><br />Name of program: Touchdown on Saturn?s moon <br /><br />Here are a few of the scientists quoted:<br /><br />Carolyn Porco, Cassini Imaging Team Leader: "The solar system has become a very much smaller place."<br /><br />David Southwood, ESA Director of Science: "I feel over the moon of Saturn." However, he also states:<br />"Everything came back as it should... on the nail or better than on the nail."<br /><br />Lucy Green grabs Marty Tomasko, head of the team responsible for getting the images of Titan back to earth [aka imaging team]: 7 cameras, 4 spectrometers, 2 photometers...<br />Data compressed images, having difficulty making a mosaic - need to determine orientation of Huygens.<br /><br />Dr. John Zarnecky (sp?) is interviewed. The 17 year history of the mission is reviewed. At the point of the interview, it was not yet determined if Huygens would last its maximum considered lifetime of 7 hours.<br /><br />Ralph Lorenz is interviewed, Co-Investigator SSP, concerning the penetrometer instrument, first to contact Titan's surface (the instrument, not Ralph). <br /><br />The first public showing of the data from this instrument is shown; preliminary interpretation of surface consistency: Resisted before compressed - spike at beginning may be a crust of some sort; compressed snow; crumbly.<br /><br />2nd picture from 8 km, 5 miles, up. <br /><br />From ESA, European space Agency, operation center in Germany. Dr. John Zarnecky examines this picture, he has only just seen it. <br /><br />Is the white: clouds, or icy area; darker area: lakes?<br /><br />Surface science package is discussed.<br /><br />Mark Leese (sp?) shows the penetrometer <br /><br />Sonar instrument explained, works on liquid including depth of ocean to 1 km.<br /><br />Radar<br /><br />Tiltmeter and internal accelerometer shown and discussed. <br /><br />Probe is shown (model).<br /><br />Speed of sound in air - 300km per second; different in water- much faster. Probe will us

 

[centsworth_II]

<i>"Tonight I will continue and eventually I will find the part about the channel A data retrieval by radio telescope."</i><br /><br />If they say anything about retrieving any data other than doppler experiment data, it will be news to me! The doppler data is very important in tracing the exact trajectory of Huygens as it dropped to the surface of Titan. This will allow the determination of wind speed and direction at various altitudes. It will also allow a precise mapping of the track Huygens followed over Titan's surface, as well precisely locating its landing point. <br /><br />Being able to exactly position Huygens at each point of it descent may also help with this:<br /><i>"Marty Tomasko: Data compressed images, having difficulty making a mosaic - need to determine orientation of Huygens."</i><br /><br />All very useful, but as far as recovering the images that were transmitted on channel A, I have seen no comment indicating that this is possible. To the contrary, I have seen comments that it is not. Those images were the only other data, besides the doppler data. that were lost by the miscue on channel A. It seems the doppler data will be largely recovered, but no image data will be.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[newtonian]

centsworth_II - Well, until I review the portion of the broadcast I cannot for certain confirm or deny that.<br /><br />However, yes I am aware those pictures were lost. <br /><br />That would mean the Science channel was having high hopes that were premature.<br /><br />This will have to wait until I locate the portion of the tape - there were 3 programs broadcast!<br /><br />And, alas, my wife is watching Matlock!

 

[newtonian]

centworth_II - Ok, I found the part about the missing data - and you are correct - the pictures were not able to be retrieved. However, one of the scientists indicated all data was able to be retrieved, so there is a contradiction.<br /><br />Before I go into that, however, there are other interesting points that were brought out- and I prefer to post them in the sequence they were broadcast:<br /><br />Could there be life on Titan is next examined:<br /><br />3rd picture- Professor John - not sure if these are snowballs, some smooth and rounder, others angular.<br /><br />What produced the rounding? Liquid? Wind?<br /><br />Huygens tilted perhaps 20 degrees?<br /><br />Titan holds secret to how life began? Similar to early earth's atmosphere.<br /><br />[The evidence is against that conclusion, btw - for one thing because of the rarity of Oxygen on Titan]<br /><br />Energy needed to drive chemical reactions - lightning? UV irradiation?<br /><br />[Again the evidence is against this - e.g. the law of mass action]<br /><br />Dr. Athena Coustenis is interviewed, Huygens Science and Titan expert:<br /><br />Atmosphere made of Nitrogen and methane - like early earth?<br /><br />Early earth could also have had much lower temperature because of weaker sun.<br /><br />[Again, not likely. Geological evidence indicates early earth was hot, not cold and certainly not 93 degrees Kelvin!]<br /><br />Athena continues: methane and nitrogen combine to form nitriles - a building block to life on earth.<br /><br />HCN is postulated as a pathway to life.<br /><br />4 nitriles have been found on Titan.<br /><br />John hopes to find more complex molecules on Titan.<br /><br />Athena: On Titan you do not have oxygen or liquid water - actually a tiny bit of oxygen (H2O). <br /><br />Organic chemistry present on Titan <br /><br />[misleading - the definition of organic here simply means carbon]<br /><br />Marcello Fulchignoni, principal investigator HASI (atmospheric structure) Instrument: <br /><br />Maximum temperature 93

 

[newtonian]

centsworth_II - Well, the scientists made it sound like a miraculous recovery of all data - one hunded per cent to quote him. However, careful examination of the context leaves open the possibility you are correct.<br /><br />Here is the context - judge for yourself:<br /><br />Dr, Ralph Lorenz from Mission Control in Europe will be interviewed.<br /><br />First, thought, a very interesting mosaic of pictures of Titan is shown .<br /><br />Dr. Ralph Lorenz is Dr. Elizabeth Turtle?s husband, also a planetary scientist.<br /><br />Why is Titan orange? Tarry red carbon containing compounds.<br /><br />Surface like slightly packed snow with a crust on top.<br /><br />Accelerometer and penetrometer helped determine this.<br /><br />Dr. Lorenz designed and built the penetrometer for 12 years.<br /><br />Too early to say composition of surface.<br /><br />However, more methane was sensed after landing- so this could have been released from surface by impact somehow.<br /><br />Methane would be a liquid on Titan. Maybe rounded rocks indicates the area Huygens landed on was a sort of alluvial fan.<br /><br />What looks like river valleys everywhere.<br /><br />Back to his wife:<br /><br />What is the nature of the boundaries of light areas and dark areas are. Dark areas may be liquid hydrocarbons: ethane and methane. But data from probe conflicts with this - so perhaps past wet like Arizona has dry riverbeds.<br /><br />Water would be like bedrock on earth, very hard ice. Channels could gouged out of water bedrock by methane rivers.<br /><br />Next: what didn?t go according to plan.<br /><br />And the silver lining - things may not be as bad as we thought at first....<br /><br />commercial<br /><br />One experiment to measure Titan?s winds didn?t happen, and half the pictures were not relayed back to earth.<br /><br />The European Space Agency (ESA) has launched an investigation.<br /><br />Ivan Seveneck (phonetic approximation- sp?) details the Cassini portion of Huygens, the receivers.<br /><br />The engineer

 

[centsworth_II]

In their excitement to emphasize that all the doppler data had beeen saved, the interviewees give the wrong impression that data other than the doppler data was also saved.<br /><br />The lost pictures would have improved the quality of the Titan panaramas somewhat. Perhaps showing a few areas not seen in the existing shots, or providing better quality shots of some other areas. But the Huygens images show us what types of features exist in the landing area and I don't thing that anything dramatically different would have been seen in the lost shots. <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>