Scientists track lightning storm on Saturn

[yevaud]

<b>Scientists track lightning storm on Saturn</b><br /><br /><i>February 14, 2006<br /><br />PASADENA, Calif. --Researchers are tracking a gigantic storm on Saturn that is unleashing lightning bolts more than 1,000 times stronger than those found on Earth.<br /><br />Using instruments aboard the international Cassini spacecraft, scientists from the University of Iowa first spotted the storm on Jan. 23.<br /><br />But since the spacecraft was not in the right position to photograph the storm, scientists enlisted the help of amateur astronomers who confirmed a storm was raging in the ringed planet's southern hemisphere.</i><br /><br />Full Story <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Photos and a MP3 of the sounds of the storm can be found here , here and here. (M & L, Cassini) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

1000X as powerful as earth lightning is beyond comprehension. and it's amazing further in that there is no (+) "ground" to ground this intense lightning to. this builds a stronger case for electric hurricanes on earth and further raises the bar in EM mysteries and phenomena.

 

[mikeemmert]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>(there has got to be a solid surface somewhere in there, albeit small)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>There is thought to be a substantial liquid metallic hydrogen ocean at the bottom of the cloud layer. But that would be really cool to actually "see".<br /><br />I don't know, though...are there clouds down lower that would absorb/reflect the radio waves? Are they attenuated? How about careful frequency selection?<br /><br />Could Arecibo or other large dishes help?<br /><br />This is mostly a puzzle of data analysis. Sounds like a good idea to me, even if we can't get as far down as the liquiid metallic hydrogen layer. Whatever we can learn. Thanks.

 

[bonzelite]

another sidebar to this lightning is that there is also such lightning at Jupiter, as well as auroae at the poles, yet there are no coastlines or grounds to close these electrical circuits. therefore, the charge density of the clouds that discharge the electrical potentials must be enormous, as well as the intervening atmosphere between the cloud and the "ground," ie, a plasma state. the current density of the lightning and subsequent ambient atmosphere must be fantastically enormous.

 

[colesakick]

Taking a fresh view of electricity in space<br /><br />http://www.holoscience.com/links.php <br />http://www.the-electric-universe.info/welcome.html <br />http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/universe.html <br />http://plasma.lanl.gov/ <br />http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050503eu-1.htm <br />http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00archive.htm <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Intellectual honesty means being willing to challenge yourself instead of others </div>

 

[bonzelite]

here is a self-referenced excerpt from this thread:<br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=forces_nature&Number=423708&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=<br /><font color="yellow"> it is fact that lightning does not fare well over open water --the extra moisture in the atmosphere over open ocean becomes an insulator in this context-- not a conductor. water vapor abosrbs charge over land as well in the form of clouds. this is what prevents a lot of lightning from ever doing damage. some clouds are either the electric dipoles in a storm, or they are the insulators, without enough charge, absorbing electrical discharges from other clouds. <br /><br />furthermore, the water's surface is relatively unstable compared to rock or dirt. in a hurricane the lightning must fight against increased moisture in the air, as well as ever changing moments of (+) charge on the water's surface. <br /><br />this is why i stated the information about mars, as it is so dry there is nothing to absorb any of the electricity in the air, so the charges have free reign to strike anywhere. and it is all desert sand and rock, no water. <br /><br />because there were actually copius amounts of lightning during these past hurricanes says to me that the electrical activity, potentials, were grandiose and extreme. giant electrical fields were detected above the storms, as if the hurricanes were gigantic electrical generators. <br /></font><br /><br />in the case of Saturn, you can replace "open water" with whatever the atmosphere of Saturn is composed of. probably lots of ammonia and hydrogen with some traces of other gases. the fact that lightning is happening at all there defies lots of standard assumptions about lightning and impies that such activity is not entirely understood or know

 

[jatslo]

Post deleted by jatslo

 

[bonzelite]

<font color="yellow"> "Could the Saturian rings and moons be products of extreme electrical activities from within?"</font><br /><br />as i've been saying, to have <i>any</i> lighting at all, <i>without a (+) ground, with the electrical potentials being conducted by the atmosphere alone --probably in a completely gaseous/vaporous state -- is more than a "big deal." this implies that the entire atmosphere itself, at least in local areas of storm activity, is electrically conductive, else there would be no visual electrical discharge in the form of lightning <font color="yellow"><b>whatsoever</b></font> </i>as it is hard enough to get conduction over open oceans on the earth, let alone without any tenable surface. <i><b><font color="orange">what is powering such colossal current densities in Saturn's skies?</font></b></i>furthermore, what is primary in the atmosphere? <i>hint: i'd bet there's electrolyte material in the atmosphere.</i> <br /><br /><font color="orange">"The Electric Universe (EU), people should jump on this one, while Cassini is in the vicinity. I know I would."</font><br /><br />they just may be. i believe Cassini is the most advanced spacecraft sent to the planets. and is subject to all kinds of data collection that will largely go unreported to the general public. <br /><br />from the Enceladus thread:<br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=sciastro&Number=151667&page=12&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=11&vc=1<br /><br />here's what i am looking for on Enceladus --stuff resembling this to enable electrolysis: <br /><br /><font color="yellow">HCl hydrochloric acid <br />HNO3 nitric acid <br />H2SO4 sulfuric acid <br />HBr hydrobromic acid <br />HI hydroiodic acid <br />HClO4 perchloric acid <br />------</font>

 

[bonzelite]

aurorae at Saturn:<br />http://www.imperial.ac.uk/P7459.htm<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Saturn's atmosphere shares strange feature with Earth, say scientists<br /><br />By Laura Gallagher<br />10 February 2006<br /><br />A feature of the Earth's atmosphere which has long puzzled scientists is replicated in the atmosphere of Saturn, according to new research.<br /><br />Saturn, like Earth, produces electron beams which not only accelerate towards its auroral region but also away from it, say scientists this week in Nature. These 'anti-planetward' electrons puzzle scientists because they do not produce auroral light and do not fit into the current understanding of how auroras, which are usually found around a planet's poles, are created.<br />-------------------</font><br /><br />ammonia at Saturn:<br />http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-54279<br /><font color="orange"> Although aerosol particles formed from photochemical reactions are seen high in the atmosphere at pressures of 20–70 millibars, the main clouds commence at pressures exceeding 400 millibars, <b>with the highest cloud deck expected to be formed of solid ammonia crystals.</b> The base of the ammonia cloud deck is predicted to occur at a pressure of about 1.7 bars, where the ammonia crystals dissolve into the hydrogen gas and disappear abruptly.</font>/safety_wrapper>

 

[jatslo]

Liquid metallic hydrogen? Metallic hydrogen mantel maybe; among other liquids that turn metallic under cryogenic extreme pressures. Not to mentioned the higher ability to super-conduct electricity and still remain icy cold to the touch, which is an understatement. If you touched the metal, it would likely suck the life from your body to feed its hunger for energy (e). What about carbon (C), bet there is some crusty carbon down there, so how does that factor. Why, if so may Saturian Moons are waterish, is Saturn not also contain proportionally different volumes of water as well? Could the Saturian rings and moons be products of extreme electrical activities from within? My goodness ... The Electric Universe (EU), people should jump on this one, while Cassini is in the vicinity. I know I would.

 

[siriusmre]

This is great stuff!<br /><br />I was particularly struck, though, by the following statements from the NASA article:<br /><font color="yellow">"<b>Light from Saturn's rings (called 'ringshine') provided the illumination</b>, allowing the storm and other cloud features to be seen. [Emphasis added.]"</font><br />And:<br /><font color="yellow">"A narrow-cloud band crosses the storm from left to right. <b>It is illuminated by the rings</b> from the north and is brighter on that side. [Emphasis added.]"</font><br /><br />Whoa. And they're just matter-of-fact about it, like they expected it.<br /><br />So, Saturn's rings <b>glow</b>? How does the standard model account for this? Reflected sunlight from the ice crystals in the rings? <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /><br />I would suggest that Saturn's "ringshine" (wow) is part of all of the electrical activity associated with this gigantic lightning storm.<br /><br />Notice also the curiously familiar spiraling form of the storm. Is anyone else struck by the amazingly coincidental(?) resemblance between Earthly weather patterns--especially powerful weather like hurricanes--and this storm on Saturn and the forms taken by spiral galaxies? Do they all just happen to look so similar, or is there something else--deeper--going on?<br /><br />Planets orbit in the electric Sun's current sheet and their atmospheres--which act as self-repairing capacitors of varying tolerances--are subject to the current fluctuations which the Sun periodically experiences as part of a galactic curcuit. Further, electrical discharges characteristically take a spiraling form. For those who can see, this is strong evidence for the electical nature of...nature.<br /><br />I wonder if there is anyone persuing the possibility of a correlation between this outburst and any known solar activity preceding it... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Reflected sunlight from the ice crystals in the rings?</font><br /><br /><i>But a phenomenon called ringshine has illuminated the situation. <br /><br />The planet's distinctive rings reflect enough sunlight to make atmospheric features, including the storm, visible even during the planet's night. <br /><br />"The light on the night side of Saturn is brighter than a full moon here on Earth—even though [Saturn is] ten times further from the Sun—because you've got these rings everywhere just filling the night sky," said Andrew Ingersoll, a member of the Cassini imaging team at California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. </i><br /><br /> Link <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[siriusmre]

Mm-hm. Excactly. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Exactly. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[siriusmre]

Of course! It's perfectly logical how the rings on the NIGHT side of Saturn... reflect... sunlight... 'cuz... the... sun... is... shining...<br /><br />Uh, never mind! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

You're right. The Earth's moon doesn't do that at all. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[siriusmre]

What do you mean? The rings on the DARK side of Saturn are not an analog of the Earth's Moon. Are you suggesting that the DARK side of the Moon also shines like Saturn's rings? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Mimas, Sunlit Rings, and the Nightside of Saturn<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

They're not? Please, tell me why. We're talking about sunlight reflected off the rings to illumate the nightside of Saturn....and sunlight reflected off the moon to illuminate the nightside of the Earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[siriusmre]

Of course, it's the reflected sunlight. "Ringshine" is JUST like our Moonlight. What else could it be, right? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>