SETI tests new alien-hunting strategy, but TRAPPIST-1 planets remain silent

[Admin]

A new search for extraterrestrial radio signals during planetary occultations in the TRAPPIST-1 system provides a promising new strategy for hunting for extraterrestrial life.

SETI tests new alien-hunting strategy, but TRAPPIST-1 planets remain silent : Read more

 

[ChrisA]

We are actually learning quite a lot from SETI. We now know there is no galactic Internet-like radio network. We know that no one is trying to contact us and we know that technological civilizations, if they exist at all are very rare. 100 years ago we did not know these things.

Or it might be that very advanced civilizations do not waste power by radiating signals out into space. I would bet they are VERY efficient and power simply does not escape its intended purpose which means we will never detect them until they decide to send a signal our way.

 

[Helio]

The Trappist system has an M8V type star as the host. Red dwarfs are known for temper tantrums (large flares, etc.). The HZ here is only ~0.03 AU, so. IMO, such systems are unlikely places to find sentient life.

 

[Joexo]

We are actually learning quite a lot from SETI. We now know there is no galactic Internet-like radio network. We know that no one is trying to contact us and we know that technological civilizations, if they exist at all are very rare. 100 years ago we did not know these things.

Are we trying to contact someone specifically? Maybe the aliens in Trappist, if they exist, are just like us with their own SETI version, looking for aliens trying to get in touch with them.

It would be hilarious if we're surrounded by aliens and we all think the other should make the first move, and we're all just passively listening.

 

[billslugg]

We are not, on a large scale, actively trying to communicate with extra terrestrial civilizations, however our military radars are doing that unintentionally. Our commercial TV/radio signals drop below the Sun's noise level before they get to Jupiter. We are putting a lot of effort into detecting artificial signals but so far, nothing repeatable. There could well be a galactic internet. One cannot prove the non-existance of something.

 

[Joexo]

We are not, on a large scale, actively trying to communicate with extra terrestrial civilizations, however our military radars are doing that unintentionally. Our commercial TV/radio signals drop below the Sun's noise level before they get to Jupiter.

this is exactly what I'm saying. Likely aliens are doing the same.

Unless some alien world is directly pointing a message at us we won't detect it.

Why should we expect than an alien civilization would spend resources to point a super strong message directly towards earth for decades until we discover them?

I think it's nonsense to expect this.

I don't know the monetary interests behind SETI but I think that's the only thing happening there.

Them pointing their radars at Trappist and hearing nothing only proves that the aliens over there, if they exist, probably have better problems or things to do with their time then pointing messages at earth.

 

[billslugg]

Planets from far away would first see that Earth had fluorocarbons in its atmosphere, thus would know intelligent life existed here. Then they would beam a signal directly at us.

SETI is entirely privately funded and is operated by volunteers.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

I think that Bill is right that if an extraterrestrial technological civilization was out there in a similar state of development and curiosity as we are today, they would be looking at nearby stars for planets and trying to detect traces of technological development in the atmospheres of planets that seem to them to be "habitable".

But, once they found one (us?), would they decide to send a signal to what they think is another technological civilization? Would (will) we, in the same situation? Would we be able to stop "ourselves" (meaning unauthorized rogue communicators).

I would not be at all surprised if there is such a planet, somewhere, even right now. But, it is the combination of "right now" and "nearby" that seems to have a strong probability of being zero cases. Even if technological civilizations develop on other planets with a high probability, they would have to last a long time in order for there to be a high probability of one to find and be close enough to communicate with us during our own period of possibility, so far.

 

[Joexo]

I would not be at all surprised if there is such a planet, somewhere, even right now. But, it is the combination of "right now" and "nearby" that seems to have a strong probability of being zero cases. Even if technological civilizations develop on other planets with a high probability, they would have to last a long time in order for there to be a high probability of one to find and be close enough to communicate with us during our own period of possibility, so far.

@Unclear Engineer, I admire your way of expressing your ideas with such clarity.

I don't like the misinformation narratives behind SETI, as the media outlets make it sound like there's no intelligent alien life anywhere because SETI hasn't found it in 50 years.

But its very possible that it's all around us, but they're simply not pointing any beams at us, SETI should be called: SETIPBAU (search for extra terrestrial intelligence pointing beams at us).

 

[Mike Everman]

So the premise is that the folks in the Trappist system are either multi-planetary (more advanced than us, talking planet to planet), or communicating with spacecraft orbiting other planets (like us). In the first case, transmitter power is planetary size (and we have to assume less than an Arecebo sized transmitter, because, how impractical is that?) In the second case, we would only get half of the possible near-occlusion spillover events, because it is unlikely that a small spacecraft like we might have will have planetary sized transmission power, and so we only really have a chance at the planetary scale transmissions.

We humans are not too far away from relying solely on laser optical communication links (especially with interplanetary spacecraft), precisely because of the inefficiency of RF transmissions, and how much lower frequencies spread and attenuate with distance.

I find it unlikely to imagine that our extraterrestrial friends will not also be using directed energy in tighter beams, with higher frequency optical bands which are capable of higher data rates and distance with less power. I fear that while the direction seems good, we are listening to the wrong bands, and must assume that they, like us, are about done with RF.

JWST is more likely to pick up what they are saying, if anything, in infrared.

Optical Communications - NASA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDMM9MZNcco

www.nasa.gov

 

[Unclear Engineer]

Trappist 1's planets don't really seem like they would have a high probability of evolving or sustaining life. They are very close to a very cool star, and are not even known to have atmospheres at this point in our research. And, they are expected to be tidally locked. So, even if they are much older than Earth, there isn't much reason to think they are much like Earth, or that some technological society would develop there, or if it had, that it would have lasted long enough to be concurrent with ours.

And, given that it is 40 light years away, if it did have a technological society that was looking for technological societies like us, it would have had to discover what we were 80 years ago (and acted quickly) to get a signal off to us in response that we would just be getting now.

All of that seems so unlikely that not finding any signals coming from those planets now seems to be of near zero value for concluding that there is nothing out there at all in the way of other technological societies on planets around other stars, elsewhere.

But, it does seem like a good place to test our SETI techniques.

 

[Helio]

We humans are not too far away from relying solely on laser optical communication links (especially with interplanetary spacecraft), precisely because of the inefficiency of RF transmissions, and how much lower frequencies spread and attenuate with distance.

Yep. The first use of a laser for communication with someone (or object, IIRC) was in 2012. That laser is in my office.

NASA soon, about a year later, used a laser system for a lunar probe. Their version was far. far superior to our simplistic use:

 

[Helio]

Planets from far away would first see that Earth had fluorocarbons in its atmosphere, thus would know intelligent life existed here. Then they would beam a signal directly at us.

SETI is entirely privately funded and is operated by volunteers.

And we are close to having far better equipment in finding those signs, which will allow great focus for SETI on these exos.

 

[billslugg]

I believe the infrared region is where the most telling of lines are when looking at complex molecules. JWST has good IR capability and good spectrum analyzers. It may beat radio based searches. Radio communications and visible spectra are so "last millenium".

 

[Helio]

But the use of arrays (interferometry) really helps.

 

[billslugg]

But the use of arrays (interferometry) really helps.

We need radio telescopes at opposite ends of the Solar System, kept in place by optical means, the angular resolution would be incredible.

 

[Mike Everman]

I suppose if I were to pick a frequency to both listen for, and broadcast at, it would be one suggested by, but not on the absorption bands of hydrogen, 410, 434, 486, and 656 nm. I think every intelligent species could agree on the most abundant signal absorber in the galaxy. I am not savant enough to see the next in the series (that is not absorbing), perhaps it's some mathematical series someone might recognize.
Leaning toward something around 350nm. An NdYAG at 355nm or XeF Excimer at 351nm seem good candidates, of the lasers we know how to make.
So many ways life could possibly take form, that do not lead to hydrocarbon tell-tales. I look at it this way: it's not a million to one that life started here, it's 100% on planets in the Goldilocks Zone so far.

 

[Mike Everman]

Though there are higher frequency lasers we can make that are under 250nm, solidly in the UV band, that would avoid most of the emission spectrum of stars... Looks like UV telescopes are already on the job, but more for spectroscopy than looking for signals.
https://astrosat.iucaa.in/node15