Space Shuttle Landings

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">Remember the pilot flying, the commander, was sick and had 30 sec. of flight time landing a real orbiter he got into a PIO. He was 180 deg behind flying it. </font><br /><br />Apologies... but could you put this into terms a former English major can understand? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

Er, what's PIO? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

Thinking about it, PIO = Puking In Orbit, right? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

PIO is a pilot induced oscilation. Normaly in the vertical plane (up-down <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) it's kind of simmilar to fish tailing a car. Being 180 degrees behind it I asume means that the oscillation was out of phaze with the pilots controll imputs, ie it was still getting worse! <br /><br />See this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

Thanks Duncan! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Pilot Induced Oscillation.<br /><br />When I referred to getting behind the aircraft what I meant is this. The corrections that I am making with the stick to take out the oscillation are appropriate for its condition some fraction of a second ago, not now. <br /><br />So, instead of making the situation better, they make it worse. Instead of damping the oscillation down, the make it grow.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

There are aircraft now that when you fnd yourself in such a situation, you stop making inputs to the stick for a bit, and the plane will recover itself - if you haven't gotten it too close to the ground or other hard object that is....<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

There is also a video of the F-22 crashing in this way. http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/F-22%20Crash.mpg

 

[drwayne]

It is interesting how many high speed taxi tests end up in an accidental liftoff, frequently firghtening everyone involved half to death...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[tplank]

I tried to Google up that YF-16 video with no luck. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>

 

[sorehed]

Someone mentioned some confusion about the altitude of that shuttle landing. I am curious: does the shuttle use a standard pitot-static/air data computer system to determine altitude and airspeed during the approach and landing? I've never noticed probes on it, but that doesn't really mean much, I guess.<br /><br />Also, how does it determine atitude and heading now? Does it still use gyros or were they replaced with a modern AHRS or something during the cockpit upgrade a few years ago?

 

[jschaef5]

I remember the first time ATC told me to expedite across the active when i was a good 100 feet from it. I gave the sucker about 75% throttle and sure enough as we crossed we pulled a wheely(i guess that could be considered a PIO?)...my instructor just laughed.<br /><br />I always worried about dragging the tail, same for soft field landings... i know the angle isnt that great but I always am a lil afraid of the tail scraping. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[sorehed]

I've often been accused of causing PIT. (pilot induced turbulence) <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">Pilot Induced Oscillation. <br /><br />When I referred to getting behind the aircraft what I meant is this. The corrections that I am making with the stick to take out the oscillation are appropriate for its condition some fraction of a second ago, not now. <br /><br />So, instead of making the situation better, they make it worse. Instead of damping the oscillation down, the make it grow.</font><br /><br />hmmmm... thanks for the explanation. So the PIO was indicated by the shuttle's nose going down -- then up -- and then back down?<br /><br />Did anybody get in trouble in STS-3 due to the late landing gear deploy? Or the up-and-down bit with the nose?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[tplank]

Yeah, but you know how they say you get more patient as you get older. That hasn't happened for me. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>

 

[jschaef5]

I just found videos of the Enterprise test flights and i think there wouldn't be much of an issue with turbulance or anything relating to docking. I think that it would be a very possible scenario. Watching how smooth this seperation is, it makes me think that the opposite could be done fairly easy. Just make some sort of cable that could connect the 2 and the pull them together in the right way. Have like a laser guided dart gun shoot a cable at the orbiter in the right spot and link them together then slowly pull them together.<br /><br />Of course that when seperating they are both starting with the same initial speed but with planes today I am fairly confident that we could get a 747 to mimic the speeds and descent angles of the orbiter. We can make 0'gs in a plane, I am sure we could get a plane in the right setup to match the shuttle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>