Space Shuttle Return to Flight - Pt. 2

[scottb50]

It seems with the time available, now, it could be a very useful test. Might as well do everything you can to find a possible fault path now than when it gets time critical.<br /><br />I wonder why, with all the tesing that can be done, between now and the new launch time it makes sense to change stacks? Why not use the time to further research the icing problems, by fueling the ET and running launch sims to see exactly what to expect. Swap the Shuttle to another stack and you reset to zero point.<br /><br />I would think more could be learned by keeping it where it is and doing more tests than rolling back and changing things. Load the current tanks a number of times and then look for problem areas, if the next set is the same design it would make more sense than starting with the same thing. Maybe it is the test loadings that cause the problems to begin with. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<font color="yellow">I wonder why, with all the tesing that can be done, between now and the new launch time it makes sense to change stacks?</font><br /><br /><br />My understanding of it is that it might be simply easier and quicker to go that route. They want to fit that new heater mod and, while it can be undertaken with the Orbiter mated, I get the impression it would be much easier to do and check with Discovery off. Plus, with the '121 ET/SRB stack already sitting in the VAB and waiting on Atlantis, the techs can get to work on the heater mod now while Discovery finishes up at the pad before rollback. I'm not sure of the timeline for the heater mod, but they could be well under way on that before Discovery gets back to the VAB, if not possibly completed.<br /><br />Then it's just the ECO sensor problem to work. De-mate Discovery, pop the compartment to change out the ECO boxes and, bam, straight back onto Atlantis' stack. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

The other thing with this second tank test is that they can get that extra data on the ice build-up. I think I am correct in saying that this is why that want to add the second heater mod. Because the ice build-up is potentially dangerous in high humidity conditions. A second tank-up in less humid conditions might reveal that the problem is not as critical as first thought, and they might be able to get away with simply adding another weather condition to the launch-day constraints.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<font color="yellow">A "Silver Snoopy" is a lapel pin that the astronauts give out as a "you did a great job" award. It is very difficult to obtain but worn with pride on one's badge holder. The astronauts come to your work site to do the presentation. On the average it goes to the top 1/2 percent of the space workers.</font><br /><br /><br /><br />In my capacity as SG's NZ Bureau Chief, and just to reiterate for the newbies, these 'Silver Snoopys' are the absolute real deal. I imagine they probably mean as much to a support technician or engineer, in the context of the US space program, as an Astronaut's wings mean to him/her. My research indicates they are awarded to far less than 1% of the workforce involved with NASA, and bear in mind that this industry is chock full with some of the best and brightest minds. Period.<br /><br />I did considerable Googling today, but was unable to find anything in NASA's incomplete online archives about SG's award in 1985. So, he will be pleased and relieved to know I am unable to embarass him somewhat by posting a photo or description of his investiture by John Young. (would have asked first, sir)<br /><br />I have nothing else to add except well-deserved and well done SG. We're fortunate to have you around these parts. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[najab]

><i>I am unable to embarass him somewhat by posting a photo or description of his investiture by John Young.</i><p>I am angry almost beyond words that shuttle_guy can't post one either...since any photos would have been stolen along with all his other stuff. <img src="/images/icons/mad.gif" /></p>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

Sounds like the e-mail I got not long after you mentioned the ECO issue from the tanking test:<br /><br />"A co-worker snagged me on way out last night and asked me if I had my 'hammer, and bunny suit' out of my locker. My jaw dropped a little bit and after I thought about where I'd need hammer and clean room suit he finally told me he'd heard that a sensor in each of the internal tanks had failed, and initial thoughts were that we'd be going in the LH through the aft dome closeout/access panel.. that's already been foamed, and of course, closed out! Being that this would require a 'cleanroom' environment (and could not be done @ pad) I just walked away shaking my head"

 

[ozspace]

Bill Harwood (CBS) has laid out a rough timeline as follows:<br /><br />"Here is a timeline of major processing milestones (dates are approximate "no earlier than" targets and should be taken with a grin of salt):<br /><br />05/15: Discovery's current tank is reloaded with a half-million gallons of rocket fuel to collect additional troubleshooting data on engine cutoff sensors, pressure relief system <br />05/28: Discovery is moved back to the Vehicle Assembly Building* <br />06/09: The orbiter is attached to the new booster/tank stack* <br />06/16: Discovery is moved back to pad 39B <br />07/13: Launch (assumes no additional tanking test) <br />* Discovery's rollback depends on when the new tank/booster stack is completed. Engineers hope to finish the work ahead of schedule, allowing them to move rollback up by several days or more.<br /><br />Before Discovery is returned to the pad, engineers must decide whether an additional tanking test is needed to verify the performance of the new tank. Such a test would add several days to the processing schedule, pushing launch to around July 18. But if the test is not required, July 13 remains a viable launch target."<br /><br />SG, would this be fairly accurate estimate at this stage?<br />

 

[najab]

Is it *ever* not humid in Florida?!

 

[drwayne]

After Ivan came through here, the humdity was quite low for a number of days!<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

I may have missed this from a following post from the next five launch manifest listing, but we've got a Russian on our site saying STS-116 will be no earlier than 23 April 2006?<br /><br />Appologies if this is either wrong, or listed on here.

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<font color="yellow">The sensor box has been replaced for several days. The one taken out has been undergoing testing but everything so far checks out. Also all connectors and wires in the Orbiter associated with the ECO's has been replaced except for some that can not be replaced. Some can not be replaced because the retest is to close the ET Umbilical door on the Orbiter. That can not be done with the Orbiter stacked.</font><br /><br /><br />So, the best case scenario now is that the re-tank will not show any anomalies with respect to the ECO sensors? Should that be the case, you then wouldn't need to replace any additional wiring once back at the VAB? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<font color="yellow">We may go into the ET to replace the wires and sensors in the tank. That has never been done at KSC. <br />We are still hoping that analysis of the removed wire and sensor box will find a problem.</font><br /><br /><br />Thanks SG. I hope for all concerned that the part of the circuit you have already removed proves faulty in some way. From what you have previously said, it seems that the sensor boxes appear good from testing so far.<br /><br />If you decide to changeout additional wiring once back at the VAB, I think I am right in saying you will have an untested complete circuit on launch day? Even though, by changing the stacks, you might be removing the section of the circuit that has caused the present anomaly.<br /><br />I hope you don't get to the tanking on launch day and have this problem manifest itself once again. Is it at all possible you will go for yet another tanking test once you are back out at the pad with '121's tank, just to make sure you are not frustrated by this on 'game day'?<br /><br />What a blimmin' nightmare ...<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<font color="yellow">And there is your intro to ECO sensor 101 training.</font><br /><br />Although I think I am at the stage now on Uplink which might best be characterised by the phrase, "a (very) little knowledge is a dangerous thing", you could yet make a halfway decent observer of Shuttle operations out of me.<br /><br />That was awesome, thanks Professor! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

I wonder how many pages thick the handbook in the glove compartment would be for a Shuttle! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[shuttle_rtf]

For what it's worth, but these dates just popped up as on the NASA manifest.<br /><br />STS-300 - NET 11 August 2005 - Atlantis<br />STS-301 - NET 03 November 2005 - Discovery

 

[najab]

I believe the requirement is for launch in 45 days or less.

 

[drwayne]

Wow, the light bulb goes on. (10 W)<br /><br />That should have been obvious to me!<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">I wonder how many pages thick the handbook in the glove compartment would be for a Shuttle!</font><br /><br />What do you think the payload bay is for?

 

[bobw]

<font color="yellow">And there is your intro to ECO sensor 101 training.</font><br /><br />I'm curious about what the sensors measure and can think of a couple of ways to do it maybe but can't find the real way anywhere. I'm thinking differential pressure, a heated RTD that stays cold in liquid oxygen, maybe optical. What principle do the sensors work on? Thanks. <br /><br />Not just for SG, anybody please feel free to answer or point me somewhere to look. <br /><br />Oh yeah, is the output digital or analog? Volts or MA? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bobw]

Thanks. I hope you are feeling better lately. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[najab]

Did you figure out if you guys had done a "stack swap" before?

 

[shuttle_rtf]

Is there a possibility we'll see both Discovery and Atlantis in the VAB at the same time?

 

[scottb50]

I just had a thought. What if you use retractable heating blankets instead of installing them on the tank. I would think if you remove them, say withing the last two or three minutes of launch, the foam would hold enough heat to keep ice from forming. <br /><br />Taking the weight and complexity off the ET would also recover payload and even larger areas could be covered to assure little or no ice could cause a problem. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rybanis]

I notice that Endeavour isn't in the report, is the upgrade going well? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ozspace]

"Once Discovery returns to the pad, another tanking test may be performed to test the new modifications."<br /><br />SG, will the decision on a third tanking test only be made once back out at the pad?