SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch, June 4, 2010

[gawin]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Many are use to the public funded go for the budget coverage of NASA.

SpaceX is a private company and is not required to show you 1 frame of video. PERIOD. NOTHING. they are taking a HUGE risk showing the tests. there is virtually no news on any station of the success of today's test but had it gone wrong it would have been on every news clip in the world.

Do you know how many things are tested in complete secrecy? every thing from Jeeps to Aircraft many programs that are even publicly funded you will never know about because they were either canceled or still remain "black"

A reason for the secrecy and i am sure part of spaceX reasons only to show certain things is because of propitiatory designs that they do not wish for there competition to find out about.

We should all thank Musk and SpaceX for the coverage they do give us because every frame we see is because THEY wish us to see it.

Now that the rant is over......... 800,000 lbs of thrust WOOOO HOOOOOOOO I am about as excited at this as i was to watch the unveiling of the Enterprise because like on that day I knew I was seeing the next evolution of space flight. I know they will be successful. It might not be 100% on flight 1 or 2 or 3 but they will be. NASA blew up a whole bunch of Redstones before they got anything in orbit

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

The SpaceX test made MSNBC.

SpaceX tests rocket engines for NASA role

 

[edkyle99]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Ed, Spacex has gone WAY out of their way to provide accurate coverage of all testing of the Falcon 9 launch vehicle. I don't understand why you keep saying Spacex is not upfront with their coverage. If you don't think Spacex is upfront, just compare them to other private space firms such as ULA and Orbital Sciences. Spacex is way more forward with coming up with information for the public and many of us here at the space.com boards greatly appeciate it.

How do you know that the "coverage" has been "accurate"? I would believe it more if the news came from independent journalists. Without media access, we are left only with the SpaceX side of the story.

SpaceX has provided a lot of information. They've been open in that regard, no doubt. However, their media interface at the Cape has not matched the standards of ULA and others. SFN/Space.com, whose reporters were left speculating about test times and results this week with the rest of us, and whose "back door" video camera access was turned off at SpaceX behest, called it a "real-time information vacuum".

Yes, SpaceX doesn't have to tell anyone anything. I'm just saying that if the company was more responsive to the media they would likely have more "friends" if things end in a fireball on launch day. (Let's face it. An inaugural launch of any rocket is a 50-50 proposition.) If things continue as they are, I have little doubt that some reporters, shut out by the company, will gleefully report with gusto on any failure.

Turned into a front page headline, a Falcon 9 failure would not just be a test launch failure, it could come to represent, to many, the fallacy of the entire "commercial" plan meant to supplant Constellation. A friendlier media might park the story on page six.

- Ed Kyle

 

[mr_mark]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Everyone here knows that Ed is pushing for a NASA plan that does not include commercial carriers. You can read his plan over at nasaspaceflight.com boards ,plan c , so he is definately not for Spacex or any other commercial carriers. That's ok but, let's not mask it behind evidence of lack of exposure from private space firms.

 

[edkyle99]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Everyone here knows that Ed is pushing for a NASA plan that does not include commercial carriers. You can read his plan over at nasaspaceflight.com boards ,plan c , so he is definately not for Spacex or any other commercial carriers. That's ok but, let's not mask it behind evidence of lack of exposure from private space firms.

Let's not state what other people think, or what you think they think. O.K.?

I supported Constellation because I saw that once it was gone, no alternative lunar exploration program would replace it. Few believed me, but it turned out that I was right.

Now that Constellation is gone, I have accepted its fate. Commercial is the future. The "Plan C" you mention could include SpaceX! It is a plan, a dream really, that uses a LEO storable propellant depot that could conceivably be supported by any launch service provider. SpaceX Dragon could conceivably play a role. Etc. The plan is designed to get to the Moon on a budget by spacing out the missions and by using existing (or soon to exist) launch assets.

SpaceX may be part of the future, though sadly likely a more limited future. Either way, I would like to be able to understand that future through the same independent, impartial space media lens that has told us the U.S. Space Age story until now. I'm surprised that everyone seems willing to accept a one-sided, half-told story!

- Ed Kyle

 

[mr_mark]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

On a different note, is it just me or does the rocket look like it's bending . In one of the pictures it looked like the rocket was slightly bending to the right. I'm thinking that it's a camera lens affect due to the extreme highth of the rocket but, not sure. The other pictures looked fine though.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

How do you know that the "coverage" has been "accurate"? I would believe it more if the news came from independent journalists. Without media access, we are left only with the SpaceX side of the story.

SpaceX has provided a lot of information. They've been open in that regard, no doubt. However, their media interface at the Cape has not matched the standards of ULA and others. SFN/Space.com, whose reporters were left speculating about test times and results this week with the rest of us, and whose "back door" video camera access was turned off at SpaceX behest, called it a "real-time information vacuum".

Yes, SpaceX doesn't have to tell anyone anything. I'm just saying that if the company was more responsive to the media they would likely have more "friends" if things end in a fireball on launch day. (Let's face it. An inaugural launch of any rocket is a 50-50 proposition.) If things continue as they are, I have little doubt that some reporters, shut out by the company, will gleefully report with gusto on any failure.

Turned into a front page headline, a Falcon 9 failure would not just be a test launch failure, it could come to represent, to many, the fallacy of the entire "commercial" plan meant to supplant Constellation. A friendlier media might park the story on page six.

- Ed Kyle

That's a pretty well stated summary of my opinion, ed. Thanx. Though I think page two or three is more likely than page 6

 

[tanstaafl76]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

It won't matter whether they are chummy with the media or not, a Falcon 9 turned fireball will be a massive step backward for them and the press would pile on regardless. A successful maiden flight is all that really matters, media relations in regards to rapidly changing testing schedules are close to irrelevant.

 

[job1207]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

btw, 1.6 Billion for 20 tons of cargo sent to the ISS by the Falcon 9 comes to $40000 a pound. It is EXACTLY $40000 a pound. You can see Elon doing the math.....Apparently that is less expensive then sending up an Atlas V or a Delta IV.

Also, Orbital Sciences is getting paid more per flight.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

OK, lets all of us (myself included) try to keep this thread focused on the Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch.

There's a thread in SB&T for more general SpaceX discussion.

 

[nimbus]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Just one bit that's 50% off topic. I'd say TANSTAAFL76's is the conclusive salient point.

If things continue as they are, I have little doubt that some reporters, shut out by the company, will gleefully report with gusto on any failure.

Has no bearing on the actual work that makes or breaks the launches. Nothing comes before that.

 

[EarthlingX]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Just one bit that's 50% off topic. I'd say TANSTAAFL76's is the conclusive salient point.

If things continue as they are, I have little doubt that some reporters, shut out by the company, will gleefully report with gusto on any failure.

Has no bearing on the actual work that makes or breaks the launches. Nothing comes before that.

We know that, reporters mostly know that, but that is not what blood thirsty public wants to hear, and reporters might be inclined to oblige.

There is some salt in more openness, but there is such thing as 'too open' too ..

Similar could be said about others, and i'm not even going to mention ( yea, ok ) Chinesee..

Argument is basically about cost-plus against non-cost-plus contracts, job-farms against r&d centres, and so on.

Falcon 9 will fly, sooner or later, i would prefer sooner.

I wonder, why there is so little interest in other delays with launches, which are rather common these days. Let them do their job, (and then i decided to try and avoid more flaming and diverting ).

Before mentioned thread in SB&T :
SpaceX Updates

 

[job1207]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Falcon 9 will fly, sooner or later, i would prefer sooner.

I wonder, why there is so little interest in other delays with launches, which are rather common these days. Let them do their job

In regards to the first point. Absolutely. I believe it will be this year.

And in regards to the second, well, these folks JUST spent somewhere around one 8th or less on development as compared to the ARES 1X. They are about to launch an orbital rocket. This is extremely important in terms of the long term health of the US manned space launch industry.

NOW, looking at Musk's other major recent venture, the price of his electric car pretty much tripled. So, we will have to see how things go. Bottom line, by all reports, they can make as many changes in a day as NASA would in a year.

Also, until say, the last year, they were not running the PR properly. Of late they say that they will launch no earlier than, and that this is a Beta flight.

Next, this effort was actually run on a shoe string. When the first Falcon 1s failed, Musk had to sell some of the company to get money.

Finally, and this is my non rocket engineer, management experience talking. I am not sure why there are nine engines on this thing. That is too many for a number of reasons. The bottom line being cost. I need to be convinced that this configuration is both less expensive and safer. I have not heard that argument yet. I would think that three is optimal, and perhaps five but not nine. We will have to see on that.

Now, putting them on an assembly line and churning out bunches, instead of onesies and twosies may well be better, we will see.

 

[edkyle99]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

... these folks JUST spent somewhere around one 8th or less on development as compared to the ARES 1X.

I doubt that is true. SpaceX is in line to receive $1.6 billion for its NASA contract. Some of those funds are surely being used in the development effort. Regardless, Ares IX was a much bigger rocket, using a bigger infrastructure, than Falcon 9. Ares IX should have cost more to develop.

Finally, and this is my non rocket engineer, management experience talking. I am not sure why there are nine engines on this thing. That is too many for a number of reasons. The bottom line being cost. I need to be convinced that this configuration is both less expensive and safer. I have not heard that argument yet. I would think that three is optimal, and perhaps five but not nine. We will have to see on that.

Falcon 9 has ten rocket engines if you count the second stage. Ariane 44L, a rocket that utterly dominated the commercial launch market in its era, also had ten liquid engines (nine hypergolic and one cryogenic). It did just fine. Some of China's successful Long March rockets are also powered by as many as 10 liquid engines. Proton M/Briz M, the world's busiest launch vehicle in recent years, uses 12 engines in its four stages.

- Ed Kyle

 

[gawin]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

The configuration i am sure is one of One engine Multiple uses 1 for falcon 1 and 9 for falcon 9 need more or less you could add or subtract. wile it is not modular why build or design 4-5 engines when you can just use 9 of 1 or 1 of 1 and the falcon 9 heavy could use 27?

this might work to there favor in that if you have 9 you might be able to lose 1 or 2 depending on time and weight of payload and still be successful wile if you lost say 1 big one or 1 medium one it might not go so well.

I am not a rocket scientist but i did stay at a holiday inn last night

 

[SpacexULA]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

I doubt that is true. SpaceX is in line to receive $1.6 billion for its NASA contract. Some of those funds are surely being used in the development effort.
- Ed Kyle

They only have less than 75 million left in COTS payments, and almost all of those are flight milestones, so they will have to spend more than they take in the rest of the way though COTS.

CRS only pays out on delivery, there is no upfront money on the 1.6 billion dollar contract. Now having a 1.6 billion dollar contract makes venture capital much easier, but that has to be payed back with a pretty significant interest (or with lose of control of your company)

The main source of financing currently for SpaceX is likely venture capital, had money, milestone payments for non NASA launches, and Elons personal money.

As far as why the 9 engines, Falcon 9 was an afterthought vehicles, Merlin was designed for Falcon 1. When the COTS program came to be, they ploted the quickest, safest way that a small company could get to a large rocket. Considering smaller engines are cheaper to design and handle, they just used more engines on the Falcon 9.

Mr. Musk himself said in an interview, that if he had known about COTS on day 1, Merlin & Falcon 1 would have been 3-4 times their current size.

Honestly the engine out thing is just sort of a happy occurrence from the fact they just don't have a bigger engine.

 

[job1207]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

From March 14 press release.

"This was the final step for the rocket and launch pad before launch itself. We are now waiting for completion of the final set of tests of the flight termination system, specifically the explosives and initiators, and the acceptance of that test documentation by Air Force range safety. As soon as the tests are complete and the Air Force has signed off, we will move forward with launch.

If all goes as hoped, the first countdown attempt may be as soon as next month. It's important to note this is not a prediction of when we will launch, just when we will probably try a countdown. Additional images of SpaceX's successful Falcon 9 static fire below—stay tuned for more updates as we continue to progress towards the first flight of Falcon 9/Dragon."

So, the first countdown attempt could come in April. Essentially, they are waiting on the Air Force at the moment.

 

[Zipi]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Contact:
Emily Shanklin | Director, Marketing and Communications
media@SpaceX.com
310.363.6733

SPACEX ACTIVATES NEW COMMUNICATION SYSTEM ABOARD INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION FOR
CONTROL OF UPCOMING DRAGON SPACECRAFT VISITS

Hawthorne, CA (March 29, 2010) – Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) announces
the successful activation of its new Dragon spacecraft communication hardware aboard
the International Space Station (ISS) during a series of operations conducted in
January and March.

Dubbed the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) Ultra High Frequency
(UHF) Communication Unit, the new system will allow ISS crew members to monitor and
command approaching or departing Dragon spacecraft during cargo delivery missions to
the orbiting laboratory.

Space Shuttle Atlantis delivered the system hardware to the ISS during mission
STS-129 in November 2009. The on-orbit checkout began January 25, 2010, when
astronaut Jeff Williams, ISS Expedition 22 Commander, worked with ground-based team
members at SpaceX headquarters and ISS mission control in Houston to power-up and
check out the new system.

On March 11, SpaceX and NASA Houston performed an additional series of tests, using
the new system to send communications between the ISS and the NASA Dryden ground
station. This provided a baseline of the radio frequency performance and confirmed
the first set of antennas performed as expected and is ready for mission operations.
Additional testing is expected for a second set of antennas as well as ongoing
verification of the overall system.

The tests employed live video and telemetry links from the ISS to verify the
hardware's functionality, broadcast and reception signal strengths, and the system's
stability over long-duration operations.

"The success of this series of tests speaks to our close collaboration with NASA as
well as the SpaceX process that allowed the rapid development of this new hardware,"
said Marco Villa, SpaceX Mission Operations Manager. "Furthermore, the January tests
marked the first official joint operations between SpaceX Mission Control in
California, and NASA Mission Control in Houston. Everything went smoothly, and we
eagerly anticipate the upcoming Dragon visits to the ISS."

Developed by SpaceX under a NASA Space Act Agreement, the new system allows for
communication between the ISS and SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft while in the vicinity
of the ISS. Its design leverages the abilities of the ISS communication systems,
providing data exchange with ground-based mission control.

Designed from the beginning to transport crew, SpaceX's Falcon 9 and Dragon
spacecraft were selected by NASA to transport cargo to and from the ISS starting in
2011. The $1.6B contract represents 12 flights for a minimum of 20 tons to and from
the ISS. The first demonstration flights under the COTS program are scheduled for
2010, following the inaugural launch of SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket.

About SpaceX

SpaceX is developing a family of launch vehicles and spacecraft intended to increase
the reliability and reduce the cost of both manned and unmanned space
transportation, ultimately by a factor of ten. With the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9
vehicles, SpaceX offers highly reliable/cost-efficient launch capabilities for
spacecraft insertion into any orbital altitude and inclination. Starting in 2010,
SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft will provide Earth-to-LEO transport of pressurized and
unpressurized cargo, including resupply to the International Space Station.

Founded in 2002, SpaceX is a private company owned by management and employees, with
minority investments from Founders Fund and Draper Fisher Jurvetson. The SpaceX team
now numbers more than 900, with corporate headquarters in Hawthorne, California. For
more information, please visit the company's web site at http://www.spacex.com.

Astronaut Jeff Williams, Expedition 22 Commander (top) aboard the
International Space Station, and engineers at SpaceX Mission Control in Hawthorne,
California, perform activation and testing of SpaceX's new communications system for
operations with upcoming Dragon spacecraft resupply missions to the ISS. Credit:
Roger Gilbertson / SpaceX

Astronaut Jeff Williams, Expedition 22 Commander, aboard the International
Space Station with the SpaceX-developed controller for the Dragon spacecraft
communications system. Credit: NASA

Illustration of SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft arriving at the International
Space Station. ISS astronauts will command Dragon via the SpaceX-developed
communications hardware recently installed aboard the ISS. Credit: NASA

Quoted from SpaceX email newsletter 29.3.2010

 

[js117]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Looks like the debut of SpaceX Falcone 9 is put off to May 8, 2010 or later, acording to www.space.com
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sp ... delay.html

 

[docm]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

NSF had a post that May 22 is more likely. Date doesn't matter IMO - the most successful launch possible for a maiden flight does.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

NSF had a post that May 22 is more likely. Date doesn't matter IMO - the most successful launch possible for a maiden flight does.

I couldn't agree more. I made my prediction for July at the end of last year.

 

[js117]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

NSF had a post that May 22 is more likely. Date doesn't matter IMO - the most successful launch possible for a maiden flight does.

I couldn't agree more. I made my prediction for July at the end of last year.

I agree.

Dose anybody know how close Falcone 9 Dragon will come to ISS.
If that is its maiden mission.

 

[js117]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

Jim from www.NASspaceflight.com on the forum.

Incorrect, The rocket is not ready. It does not have an approved range safety system. It is Spacex overall responsibility and therefore their fault. They have to go before the range with the since they, Spacex, are responsible for system safety. Their subcontractor is only a small part of that. And yes, Spacex tried to avoid using a destruct system, hence the delay


http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index. ... 19228.1560

 

[SpacexULA]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

I agree.

Dose anybody know how close Falcone 9 Dragon will come to ISS.
If that is its maiden mission.

No where near it. This is not a COTS milestone flight, this is a Falcon 9 maiden flight. This flight will hopefully be orbital, but should only last 3-4 orbits, then reenter.

1st milestone flight it again goes nowhere near ISS, it just has to do station keeping within a predefined box.

2nd it approaches ISS, but does not come within close proximity.

3rd is when it get's parks itself beside the ISS, and get's captured.

 

[job1207]

Re: Upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 Flight 1 Launch

This isn't of any consequence. I am not sure why the concern. They said that they were testing the flight termination system and waiting for Air Force clearance on their March 14 statement, and noted a no earlier than ......

SpaceXULA, that is an interesting name.