Spy satellite to make uncontrolled re-entry.

[halman]

According to the New York Times, the American intelligence community has just admitted publicly that it has lost control of a bus-sized, 20,000 pound spy satellite.<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Dead-Satellite.html?hp<br /><br />This is a rather uncommon occurrence, as these kinds of assets are usually intentionally made to burn up over the ocean, insuring that any secret technology is destroyed or rendered irretrievable. <br /><br />One amusing note:<br /><br />'''Appropriate government agencies are monitoring the situation,'' said Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for the National Security Council, when asked about the situation after it was disclosed by other officials. ''Numerous satellites over the years have come out of orbit and fallen harmlessly. We are looking at potential options to mitigate any possible damage this satellite may cause.''<br /><br />He would not comment on whether it is possible for the satellite to perhaps be shot down by a missile. He said it would be inappropriate to discuss any specifics at this time.'<br /><br />Apparently, the person writing this story is unaware of the uproar caused when China shot down one of its own satellites, creating a huge cloud of debris in orbit.<br /><br />Another paragraph which caught my eye:<br /><br />"The largest uncontrolled re-entry by a NASA spacecraft was Skylab, the 78-ton abandoned space station that fell from orbit in 1979. Its debris dropped harmlessly into the Indian Ocean and across a remote section of western Australia." <br /><br />The inhabitants of Melbourne would not have considered the airlock section from Skylab landing in their city 'harmless', and and it only missed by a couple of hundred miles.<br /><br />Yes, the world leader in space technology is getting ready for some of its garbage to land somewhere in the world. Maybe we should start a lottery, ten dollars a be, on where it will land. These ki <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[drwayne]

I remember when Skylab was in its death process, folks were selling helmets with a spike on top of it - said it would provide an entire something-or-other millseconds of warning of impending impact...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[3488]

I assume the inclination of its decaying orbit is not revealed?<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[Pooua]

If I had to make a wild guess, I would be "inclined" to say it is in a polar orbit. I think I heard somewhere that most spy satellites are in polar orbits, so they can image any part of the Earth. Then, again, I guess it just depends on the needs of the mission.

 

[3488]

If it is in a polar orbit, then it could impact anywhere on Earth. I expect such information<br />is currently classified.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[usn_skwerl]

GRAB THE YOUNG'INS, IT'S GONNA FALL!!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I would think it is pretty high and covers a lot of land areas or they wouldn't have started talking about it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[baktothemoon]

"bus sized" that's a pretty big satellite isn't it? I wouldn't have expected a spy sat to be that huge, i wonder if it's more than your typical spy sat.

 

[windnwar]

Remember though that alot of NRO launches were on the Titan IV and that gives you payloads up to 38,000 pounds to polar orbit. Many of those sats are quite large due to the imaging equipment etc, that they carry, along with significant amounts of propellant to deal with all the moves they will have to perform to grab the images needed. <br /><br />10tons is probably not very uncommon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font size="2" color="#0000ff">""Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein"</font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>The inhabitants of Melbourne would not have considered the airlock section from Skylab landing in their city 'harmless', and and it only missed by a couple of hundred miles.</i><br /><br />More like 1300 miles. But there are still some nice bits of Skylaab in the museum at Esperance (pop 20,000) nd the Balladonia roadhouse (pop 10).<br /><br />People were fairly annoyed then about the US raining its rubbish on them.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[nimbus]

So there's no way to know what the sat's power source is? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[larper]

Solar. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Vote </font><font color="#3366ff">Libertarian</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[kimmern123]

At NASASpaceFlight.com people are saying it's a satellite launched on the Delta II in 2006 that never worked once in orbit. It's an NRO satellite known as USA193 or L-21. It was placed in Low-Earth Orbit in a 58.5 degree inclination after being launched from Vandenberg AFB in December 2006. It has been out of control for some time and was launched into an orbit altitude of about 300 km.

 

[kimmern123]

Sorry, my mistake. The thread at NSF had developed quite a bit after I last read it and they came to the same conclusion as you, shuttle_guy.<br /><br />

 

[bpcooper]

It is the guys on See Sat L who have been following L-21 since launch and estimating a late-Feb reentry, which is why it would be a match. 20,000 lbs is just the guess from some guy at globalsecurity.org.<br /><br />http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Jan-2008/index.html#204 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>

 

[itsfullofstars]

Anybody who drops litter in a beautiful park should feel ashamed rather than proud IMHO<br /><br />Just my penny's worth and thats not me being anti American, I would have the same opinion of any country who did this.<br />

 

[MeteorWayne]

Hey, stuff breaks.<br /><br />In any case, very little of it will survive reentry. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[halman]

par72,<br /><br />What I meant was that some 30 years after we allowed a large chunk of hardware to de-orbit uncontrollably, due to the refusal of Congress to fund a rescue mission, we are unable to do anything about another piece of hardware coming down where it will, primarily due to Congress refusing to fund any substantial development in our space faring capability. I have little doubt that this satellite will burn up completely on re-entry, but that is not going to reassure many people who don't understand this whole thing about putting stuff in orbit.<br /><br />We like to portray ourselves as the most powerful, advanced nation on the planet, yet we are on the verge of losing all manned access to space. When Skylab fell, I was confident that a few decades later we would have nearly unlimited access to space, and at a reasonable cost. A public relations gaffe like this would never be allowed to happen, and, even more importantly, I was sure that we would be able to retrieve and repair expensive hardware such as this multi-million dollar eye-in-the-sky.<br /><br />This event, in and of itself, is inconsequential. However, I feel that it is indicative of our steady decline in off planet capability, something which I never imagined would happen. It seemed so simple and straightforward back in the '70's, that a fairly small investment in technology over a period of 15 to 20 years would allow us to do pretty much whatever we wanted to do in space. We were building the first reusable spacecraft, which would be capable of establishing the first permanent presence of humans in space. That stepping stone would enable us to return to the Moon by the turn of the century, without having to spend anywhere near as much as we had spent on Vietnam.<br /><br />But our leaders insisted on doing space on the cheap, refusing to fund any projects for the Space Shuttle to build. Then, we lost a shuttle due to what was obviously political pressure. I began to realize that space was <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[holmec]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>In any case, very little of it will survive reentry. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I hope so.<br /><br />What are the chances of the USAF breaking up a sattelite that goes haywire like this. Could they break it apart so it does not hit the ground on reentry? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

And breaking it up in orbit would be bad, very bad.<br />All those orbiting pieces....yuck. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[itsfullofstars]

"Hey, stuff breaks."<br /><br />Well..... yes..... obviously... stuff does break, its not an excuse not to take responsibility when something breaks dangerously tho!<br /><br />"In any case, very little of it will survive reentry."<br /><br />I do hope you are right this one contains hydrazine, I wonder how much. I wouldnt be very happy if somebody dumped a bucket of the stuff in my garden.<br />

 

[MeteorWayne]

That surely won't survive the trip. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[itsfullofstars]

"That surely won't survive the trip."<br /><br />Nobody seams to know, and BTW these days fuel tanks are buried deep within the structure to minimize explosions on orbit from micro meteor strikes/space junk strikes. Which would also mean the fuel tank is shielded to some degree from heat of re-entry, in the centre of a small bus sized sat'.<br />

 

[lampblack]

Here is a bit of info on what this particular satellite was intended to do.<br /><br />According to globalsecurity.org, it is known variously as NROL-21 (referring to National Reconnaissance Office Launch 21), or USA-193. It was launched on a Delta II from Vandenberg on Dec. 14, 2006. The spacecraft failed within hours of launch.<br /><br />It featured largely experimental radar-based imaging systems. This from the globalsecurity.org link:<br /><br /><i>The Future Imagery Architecture (FIA) is the NRO’s initiative to define, acquire and operate the next generation imagery satellite architecture. The Enhanced Imaging System (EIS) represented the next generation of raw source material for exploitation within the US Imagery and Geospatial Information System (USIGS) Architecture, NIMA and NIMA's external customers. EIS consists of two effectivities, E-300 and E-305, that will provide new capabilities to the USIGS. USIGS must be capable of tasking, processing, archiving, disseminating, and exploiting EIS data. Many aspects of E-300 and E-305 will impact NIMA USIGS systems and programs which must be carefully assessed for proper integration throughout its entire life-cycle. Data format changes (E-300-Enhanced Collection System (ECS)) and new capabilities (E-305-new radar capability) were to result from these two effectivities.</i> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[comga]

Also from that site:<br /><br />NROL-21 was launched into a 351 x 367 km orbit with a period of 92.9 minuntes and an inclination of 58.5 degrees. The mass of the spacecraft is unclear. From Vandenberg AFB, a Delta II 7290 could place about 3,300 kg (7,300 lbs) into a 90 degree polar orbit at the initial altitude of NROL-21. NROL-21 launched at such a polar azimuth, then dogleged to 58.5 degree orbit, suggesting a payload of about 3300 kg / 7300 lbs. (That's a lot smaller than the conjectured 20,000 lbs.)<br /><br />Soon after launch John Locker in the UK reported that the NROL-21 satellite failed within hours of its launch and the solar arrays never deployed. <br /><br />On 19 January 2007 it was reported that US officials were unable to communicate with the reconnaissance satellite. <br /><br />As of 22 January 2008 Ted Molczan reported that NROL-21 had decayed to 271 x 282 km and was decaying at a rate of about 0.7 km per day, which would accelerate as it continued to spiral in.<br /><br />On 26 January 2008 the Associated Press reported that the satellite would hit the Earth in late February or March, according to US government officials.