Spy satellite to make uncontrolled re-entry.

JonClarke · Jan 28, 2008

Annoyed?! I thought, they should be excited....satellites drop rarely, not everyday Yep, so long as it was not your roof <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I have been to both Balladonia and Esperance, some of those bits of Skylab were very big - titanium gas bottles a metre across, a lead lined film vault that weighed half a tonne, things like that. If it come down an orbit later it could have been Perth. Injuries and fatalities would have been mch more likely. I am still amazed that nobody was killed or injured on the ground when Columbia broke up. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Jan 28, 2008

Par72 Please note that is this not the thread or the fora for chest thumping nationalism and outright jingoism. There are no threads or fora anywhere on SDC that allow personal attacks on fellow posters, which is why I have edited your post. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

centsworth_II · Jan 28, 2008

"I am still amazed that nobody was killed or injured on the ground when Columbia broke up." It's surprising how much empty (unpopulated) space there is in the USA. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bobblebob · Jan 28, 2008

BBC Radio 2 were reporting on this today. The way they were talking about the satellite was that its some top secret piece of hardware, than America have been trying to keep secret. Is this the case?

MeteorWayne · Jan 28, 2008

Well, it's a spy satellite. As such, they release as little information as possible. "Secret" is in a relative sense, since it can be seen from earth like many other satellites. They would be expected to reveal very little about the details of the payload. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

lampblack · Jan 28, 2008

From the globalsecurity.org link above: "The payload is believed to be the first of the Future Imagery Architecture [FIA] imaging radar spacecraft, designed to be the replacement for the operational Lacrosse/Vega/Onyx spacecraft that are believed to carry two elongated radar imaging dishes." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Just tell the truth and let the chips fall... </div>

mrjlh · Jan 30, 2008

Here's CNN's report on it. They say it is the USA-193. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/01/29/dead.satellite.ap/index.html

pmn1 · Jan 30, 2008

The interesting thing about the CNN article is the line saying amateur satellite watchers have been watching it degredation for a year which makes a bit of mockery some of the suggestions the US military were keeping it secret. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2008

As I stated earlier in the thread, they keep as much about the mission secret as they can, but you can't keep a satellite secret, because it can be seen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

logicize · Jan 30, 2008

They seem to be very concerned about the hazardous materials, they are working with FEMA. "Renuart added that, "As it looks like it might re-enter into the North American area," then the U.S. military along with the Homeland Security Department and the Federal Emergency Management Agency will either have to deal with the impact or assist Canadian or Mexican authorities" http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UG19Q80&show_article=1 I hope there aren't some sort secret biological or chemical weapons on board.

mrjlh · Jan 30, 2008

Here's some very interesting amateur links but I saw no current reports on USA=193. I think anything doing with the military might be rarely discussed to avoid late knocks at the door. Some things are best left unsaid when it comes to sensitive issues. http://www.hobbyspace.com/SatWatching/ http://www.bester.com/satpasses.html http://www.satobs.org/satintro.html http://www.spaceflightnow.com/

CalliArcale · Jan 30, 2008

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />I hope there aren't some sort secret biological or chemical weapons on board.<hr /></blockquote> Doubtful. There are much better ways of delivering that sort of weapon than via a satellite. A satellite would be an extremely expensive and failure-prone way to deliver very small amounts of biological or chemical weapons to a target. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Most likely, they're talking about hypergolic propellants. These are fairly ubiquitous in spacecraft, because they don't need an igniter (making the rocket engine simpler and thus more reliable) and they tend to be fairly non-volatile (meaning they don't boil off too fast). One of the big downsides to hypergolics, though, is that they are very dangerous to handle, partly because they are hypergolic (they ignite spontaneously on contact with one another) but also because they are quite toxic. The most popular combination is hydrazine (which comes in several flavors) and nitrogen tetroxide. Nasty stuff. There's doubtless some remaining in the tanks when each Progress reenters, but they are put on a path which ensures they'll be consumed on reentry. It's also possible that there's some instrumentation on board which has some hazardous materials in its construction. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2008

Especially since it's in a near circular orbit. It can fall over any continent except Antarctica. It's much easier to predict where sats in highly eccentric orbits will reenter; somewhere near perigee <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> If it is indeed USA 193, that is. There are some excellent passes for the NE US next Thursday and Friday, with the sat as bright as mag +1.5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

j05h · Jan 30, 2008

It is the technology and tech-transfer issues they are worried about, possibly followed by propellant contamination. The systems on spy sats are very classified. Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center">We need a first generation of pioneers. </div> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2008

While it's unlikely that any of the tech stuff would survive reentry, sure would be embarrasing if it came down over China or Russia <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

silylene old · Jan 30, 2008

They seem to be very concerned about the hazardous materials, they are working with FEMA. It is extremely unlikely any hypergolic fuels would survive to the surface. I interpret the above concern completely as a cover to minimize civilian retrieval of secret military hardware. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

pmn1 · Jan 30, 2008

The posters of the 'keeping it a secret' claim were suggesting the US military was trying to keep the fact it was coming down a secret. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2008

That's not the way I read the 2 or 3 "secret" comments. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

CalliArcale · Jan 30, 2008

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />It is the technology and tech-transfer issues they are worried about, possibly followed by propellant contamination. The systems on spy sats are very classified. <hr /></blockquote> FEMA wouldn't care (or have access to) the technology stuff. You are correct, however, that they are doubtless concerned about recovering any portions of the vehicle which survive reentry due to various technology transfer and classified data issues, and you make a good point that they could be calling FEMA in partly as cover for their own recovery operation. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2008

Which won't help at all if it lands outside the US. Perhaps a mission is being planned to shoot it into pieces just after it enters the atmosphere. Would be an interesting test of our ability to destroy incoming spacecraft or ICBM's. I ASSUME they would not destroy it while in a pre-atmospheric orbit, since that would be as stupid as what the Chinese did in destroying a large segment of orbital space. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

pmn1 · Jan 30, 2008

Ahh, they weren't on this board, they were elsewhere. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2008

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood that. Here it was pretty clear we knew it could be seen. In fact, at Mag +1.5 it's not hard to see at all. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

bobblebob · Jan 30, 2008

Whats annoying me about this whole issue is how the media (in the UK particularly) have once again reported this story as its something that has gone wrong for Nasa. Bet they dont report on it if it breaks up on reentry and isnt a threat.

CalliArcale · Jan 30, 2008

*groan* You'd think they'd learn to distinguish between different agencies. Heck, it's not like the press doesn't enjoy catching the military in a screwup. Sadly, even journalists who ought to know better tend to think "space" = "NASA". (At least it's not as bad as when they attribute something from a completely different *country* to NASA, like when "Transformers" talked about the loss of NASA's Beagle 2.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

MeteorWayne · Jan 30, 2008

Well you'll certainly read about it here <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Spy satellite to make uncontrolled re-entry.

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