Sticky threads

[EarthlingX]

Is it possible to make some threads sticky ? I think it would avoid repeating same old stories and keep content together.
People will still have to read, which is somehow a problem for many, but at least you could point them to one place ...

 

[MeteorWayne]

There are a few sticky threads. But it's too easy to have too many; then the first page of topics in a forum list gets filled with them. The Mod team uses our judgement with the tendency being to not stick many, or only sticky them for a period of time.
If you'd like to suggest one, post it here and we'll consider it.

 

[EarthlingX]

This are my recommendations, not for existing threads, but perhaps for new. They are all for SBT.
There could be a list of existing threads, which could probably help to organize it a bit.
- Shuttle
: same questions, same things keep popping up, as you know. There are also some good ideas, that get lost, or missed.
- VASIMR
: At least to teach people how to spell it
- Nuclear space
: If for nothing else, to keep Hyperion Power Module
: on the radar
- LEO access
- Space garbage
- Asteroid protection
-
.....

To be honest, i don't have a clue how to deal with it exactly, i count on you Wayne I can make a post or two with all the links, but would feel better if you would do it :roll:

 

[a_lost_packet_]

This are my recommendations, not for existing threads, but perhaps for new. They are all for SBT.
There could be a list of existing threads, which could probably help to organize it a bit.
- Shuttle
: same questions, same things keep popping up, as you know. There are also some good ideas, that get lost, or missed.
..

Generally, in situations like that, people make "Index Threads" and get those stickied. The problem there is keeping them up-to-date. Without someone keeping them updated, they're just forum garbage.

So, if you're volunteering.. Create a good enough index thread and swear on your neighbor's cat you'll keep it updated until Armageddon or "New Coke" comes back and maybe, just maybe, someone will agree to sticky it. (Oh, if you don't like your neighbors cat, that's ok... nobody else does either.)

 

[yevaud]

Hmm, here's a thought: a single stickied thread, which contains the links to all of the above relevant threads in the forum. That way, no vasty number of stickied threads.

Wayne, what say you?

 

[MeteorWayne]

It could work, with a cost in maintainence. I'd probably prefer it be locked and the mods control the links to avoid it spiraling out of control. That's just my quick thought. Lets take a look at how many related threads there are. I have preferred to merge the threads rather than allow dupes to proliferate, but there may be times when there are good reasons not to do that.

 

[EarthlingX]

This are my recommendations, not for existing threads, but perhaps for new. They are all for SBT.
There could be a list of existing threads, which could probably help to organize it a bit.
- Shuttle
: same questions, same things keep popping up, as you know. There are also some good ideas, that get lost, or missed.
..

Generally, in situations like that, people make "Index Threads" and get those stickied. The problem there is keeping them up-to-date. Without someone keeping them updated, they're just forum garbage.

So, if you're volunteering.. Create a good enough index thread and swear on your neighbor's cat you'll keep it updated until Armageddon or "New Coke" comes back and maybe, just maybe, someone will agree to sticky it. (Oh, if you don't like your neighbors cat, that's ok... nobody else does either.)

I was digesting this flash a bit, and here s a tiny 'patch'
- Mod starts this thread, keeps updating the first post with links to related threads.
- members add suggestions, which after a debate or at least consideration finish or not in the first post
- non related posts get moved, easy to find where (i can't do that, don't want that power)

Mess at one place, easy to find it all.
Example, might not be the best, but i use that:
Relativity Calculator
Another one is that fine CalliArcale's article about landing on other planets and moons, which i can't find atm...

And there are more.

Hmm, here's a thought: a single stickied thread, which contains the links to all of the above relevant threads in the forum. That way, no vasty number of stickied threads.

Exactly. 4 at most, or it gets ugly.

 

[MeteorWayne]

earthlingX

That's not too bad an idea. If we (the mods) create it and state clearly up front that suggestons may be added but what gets posted in the reference page is up to us. I think it might be better to have just one "first post" with subjects and their links listed, rather than 4 stickied ones. We can keep that reference post locked so it can't be changed except by the mods.

Whatcha thing, Yev?

I'd be willing to undertake this later today, assuming my power doesn't get knocked out by the howling winds.

 

[yevaud]

A few thoughts on this:

You know, since we're discussing this, how about another locked/stickied thread which contains links to all of the online resources relevant to the forum? A sort of quick-reference that is easy and convenient for everyone? Members can add useful links as we go along by PM'ing them to us.

So:

One locked, stickied thread with links to all the top discussions within that forum (or important past threads).
One locked, stickied thread with links to as many good resources as we can locate that are relevant to that forum's subject matter (online calculators, referential material, etc.).
Two threads more that can be stickied because of top relevance or momentary interest (special announcements, unusual or historic events, etc.).

Eventually, this can be done for all of the hard science forums. Everything is streamlined and convenient.

 

[EarthlingX]

I am glad you like this and i am sure you will make the best of it too

 

[a_lost_packet_]

...Eventually, this can be done for all of the hard science forums. Everything is streamlined and convenient.

The only thing I have to stress is that continual maintenance is completely necessary. Whereas, for things like Mission Thread links, they can be unstickied when the primary mission objectives are completed. (Easily decided upon by a third-party schedule..) In an index thread, that index has to be updated to be of any practical use. So, that means more work for the mods. I'm all for it but, want the mods to be happy with the new workload requirements.

On third-party indexes:

These are a PITA. You can never guarantee any link will work. Sites change their trees, sites go down, walls are put up, etc.. Those are hairy to have to keep up to date and working. Intermittent sites can be a problem too so "dead" links would have to be put in a "Purgatory" section for a couple of weeks until it was obvious they were permadead. The worst sites to index link with resources are Government and University sites. They change all the time. That's especially true when you get neat little online calcs and gadgets to play with from a University page that happens to be a prof's resources for a class or even a student's page. So, third-party indexing is going to require more editing to keep up to date.

Hey, I'm not knocking the idea, just knocking it around. Mods play whack-a-mole with all sorts of issues so adding to their workload is something users have to be considerate about. Just remember, there's no more greater waste of sticky-space than an Index thread that hasn't been updated in two years or since the forum structure changed and borked all the links... If the mods don't mind keeping them clean and up-to-date, I'm all for it.

PS - For goodness sakes, don't put up an Offsite Index for the Unexplained... We'll be generating traffic hits for woos non-stop for generations... and then be forced to put up with the trackbacks... (A very few might be safe but, caution is urged.)

 

[MeteorWayne]

I know I have no intention of building or maintaining an offsite index. As you said, much as I enjoy whack-a-mole (one of my fave games), there's more than enough work to do here and still have time for fun, learning, and education The way I interpreted EX's suggestion was to keep track of related but not identical threads here at SDC. Take a look at my fitful start in SB&T on VASIMR.

 

[EarthlingX]

What do you think about my contribution ?
Not done with it yet, but it's mostly there.

edit. (after a long time, sorry ... )
1. Thank you Wayne for the opening shot
2. Link:
List of Multiple Threads on the Same Topic

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I know I have no intention of building or maintaining an offsite index. As you said, much as I enjoy whack-a-mole (one of my fave games), there's more than enough work to do here and still have time for fun, learning, and education The way I interpreted EX's suggestion was to keep track of related but not identical threads here at SDC. Take a look at my fitful start in SB&T on VASIMR.

Looks like EarthlingX has the jump on ya.

(Pssst... Everybody loves a volunteer. Then, they don't have to do the work themselves. Besides, when the volunteer screws it up, they can take the blame... )

Of particular note:

We don't have a thread-necro policy on SDC. So, I would advise any index lists of threads include instructions for users not to post in threads that are over a year old (or whatever arbitrary date you decide) but, instead, start a new thread and reference the older one if they must. That won't keep it from happening but, it may lower the chance we'll have to deal with zombie threads. (Unless you can lock them without automatically having their status shown as "updated" on the forum software and bumping them to the top?)

 

[a_lost_packet_]

What do you think about my contribution ?
Not done with it yet, but it's mostly there.

Wow, excellent work!

Remember, when you first enter SB&T you see a bunch of threads all laid out for you.. an "index" of recent postings. So, you don't have to re-index the entire forum.

Your concept is good. But, I'd stick to a few, very important SB&T topics at first. For instance, VASIMR has been brought up. OK, that would be a great topic, probably deserving its own heading. But, if you give it its own heading, do all other forms need their own as well? How long until the Index Sticky begins to serve the same purpose as the forum display and enters into the realm of over-redundancy-redundancy?

So, for SB&T you have three areas to cover - Space, Business and Tech. "Space" may contain a number of important but otherwise unrelated topics. Various "How to's" might go in there and too many might clutter it up. It may be necessary to only post the biggest categories like ideas for Moon/Mars exploitation, asteroids, commercial travel/tours, etc.. "Business" is easy. Whatever deals with the various private space-hopeful aerospace companies and is significant enough to warrant being indexed. Every thread on Bigelow may not warrant an index listing. Tech could be divided up between those techs most frequently discussed and those threads which are the most informative.

I see a lot of threads in your index. Are they all of equal value? If so, there's a lot more quality info and activity in SB&T than I realized. If something qualifies for being indexed, that means it is of exceptional value. (At least, on a forum. In a book, it gets indexed anyway, whether it is important or not - No prejudgment is involved there.) Not everything should be indexed. We don't have a system to categorize individual threads with topic-tags/keywords and a Thread Index sticky shouldn't try to do that or it becomes unmanageable. If it did, it'd be a Table of Contents and not an index of the most informative/important threads in a subject.

 

[EarthlingX]

Thank you for compliments and a very thoughtful critic

I might have tried too much at once, and i did base that selection on my interest and view, even though i tried to be objective. More or less i tried to include the longest threads, which are not necessarily the best, and i am hoping on others for suggestions, as to what exactly to put in, and what to take out. This is somehow i thought this would go.
I did also include some rather short threads, which i find a good reference, and some which are meant to be a reference, like various updates, which sometimes sink rather deep.

I like your idea about grouping, very nice, it's extremely logical
* edit:
After a little thought .. SB&T is actually Space Business and Space Technology, only two, not three. This division also, in my opinion, doesn't reflect what is going on, and many things are a bit of both. I tried to be more organic, though i admit, it reflects my view. There was, and still is, what i would call a mild quark storm, so i was trying to save myself from reading too much of the same stuff all over. I guess it's too soon to say if it works
*

It became a rather long post, but i still find it easier to find something, than when listing through the forum index, or index of my posts, and i am not even long here .. !

Things should be changed after a while, thats a definite yes, and i like that idea about posting and referencing guide, would be a real pain saver for many, i guess. Not that there are no such threads on the forum, just very, very far couple of clicks away ... :roll:

Wayne can for example quote me, copy/edit/past in his first post, i delete mine (two such big posts = no-no), and voila ! It was meant more as an example for a real thing, which i would somehow volunteer to mods :mrgreen:
It took me a couple of hours, but now it's only maintenance, no biggie.

Then me, or other, post suggestions, that get, or not, in the index. Non related posts get moved to a garbage thread or whatever.

I could do this for SB&T, i feel rather at home there, but would not even dare to have a thought about doing something similar in some other part, bad idea ...

If such a thing were in Missions and Launches, maybe i could think of some suggestion, but not likely

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Thank you for compliments and a very thoughtful critic

You're very welcome. And, thank YOU for being a very diligent and constructive member of SDC for taking yourself to task on not only suggesting site improvements but actually working towards them! Lots of people make suggestions in many areas, few actually "work" towards them.

* edit:
After a little thought .. SB&T is actually Space Business and Space Technology, only two, not three. This division also, in my opinion, doesn't reflect what is going on, and many things are a bit of both. I tried to be more organic, though i admit, it reflects my view. There was, and still is, what i would call a mild quark storm, so i was trying to save myself from reading too much of the same stuff all over. I guess it's too soon to say if it works

Good points. It really is "Space Business" and "Space Technology." So, that really helps simplify it a bit. Now, you only have two headings to file things under. Find the major elements there and you have your "tree" to build on.

One thing you may find yourself doing is NOT finding enough information on a particular subject that should be included in such an index. That's when you do the obvious and create a thread for that subject.

This thread, Lectures, Documentaries and Books (Physics and Cosmology) had its beginnings there. It is, perhaps, one of the best stickies on the board, ranking right up there with the old "First Telescope" thread.

Your example and that of BoJangles2 is why forum members truly offer a value-added service by generating quality content.

 

[EarthlingX]

Good points. It really is "Space Business" and "Space Technology." So, that really helps simplify it a bit. Now, you only have two headings to file things under. Find the major elements there and you have your "tree" to build on.

I tried that, and it's still a bit messy ..
Majority of the heat is around Constellation and LEO Access, and it is just not all there is in that area, that is SB&T.
And then are Shuttle ideas, which have a freq. of about 2 months to pop-up a new. I tried to stop that cycle, and i already doubt in my success .. :? :lol:
New Space is a big subject and even if there were a thread, which would attempt to cover it all, i doubt at it success, maybe as an index to other threads, that would cover it in more detail. A lot of threads included have related discussions.
Which brings me to yet another flash :idea: :
- second level index threads.
They get referenced in the main index, but can sink, no need for sticky.
They could include all sorts of threads, that i have not included atm, for different reasons, mostly for not being exactly informative, or lacking any new facts, or maybe not so important facts, in my view.
They could also reference other parts of SDC, while i tried to stay in SB&T, and it is still rather long ...
If any such thread comes on-line in SB&T, i will definitely include it.

It would also be much easier to do, it could even be automated, if there were a site mechanism, which would allow thread or post ratings.
I guess, it is money related ..

One thing you may find yourself doing is NOT finding enough information on a particular subject that should be included in such an index. That's when you do the obvious and create a thread for that subject.

Very true. Companies in the New Space sector are not all covered, which i admit, might be a bit hard. At least major players are in, i guess, but would have nothing against a new thread of such content. A bit beyond me, i'm afraid.
There are some subjects, which can now be seen missing, and i am chewing this a bit.

This thread, Lectures, Documentaries and Books (Physics and Cosmology) had its beginnings there. It is, perhaps, one of the best stickies on the board, ranking right up there with the old "First Telescope" thread.

I included that thread under the General Knowledge, i think just before your post

Your example and that of BoJangles2 is why forum members truly offer a value-added service by generating quality content.

Thank you I must admit, it had a kind of a selfish roots, and i hope it is an example that will not be too hard to follow.
I don't feel so much at home at other parts of SDC, and it would be really nice, if some insider would put something like that together, for quarks, other members and himself in her/his/its forum.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I tried that, and it's still a bit messy ..

Refer to my earlier post - Not everything has to be indexed. If you do that, it ceases to become an "Index Thread" and turns into a "Table of Contents" which, by design, the forums already have by way of listing each thread on the screen.

Which brings me to yet another flash :idea: :
- second level index threads.
They get referenced in the main index, but can sink, no need for sticky.

Most forum Index Threads include a sort of "Free for all" type listing of "important" threads that are topical yet don't conform to any Index Subject with particular vigor.

They could include all sorts of threads, that i have not included atm, for different reasons, mostly for not being exactly informative, or lacking any new facts, or maybe not so important facts, in my view.

Be careful of bias. Nail down the reasons "why" something deserves to be indexed in the first place. Usually, an index thread is sort of like a "FAQ." People keep posting the same subject matter asking questions about such&such so, you index a "such&such" thread to answer these questions. Then, they can post a more substantive thread commenting from an informed opinion rather than just asking a question.

It would also be much easier to do, it could even be automated, if there were a site mechanism, which would allow thread or post ratings.
I guess, it is money related ..

It's design related. There's no reason why threads can't have a subject heading tag. I've seen other sites using this software have "subject tags." Ratings are a bit more problematic but, you can do ratings as well. At least, I see no reason why not.

The biggest reason is that they only have so much money and time to devote towards developing the forums. When the forums get more active members and become more profitable, if ever, then they may consider something like that. I doubt it as I bet the forums don't ever do more than break even. But, it's possible they could do more.

Very true. Companies in the New Space sector are not all covered, which i admit, might be a bit hard. At least major players are in, i guess, but would have nothing against a new thread of such content. A bit beyond me, i'm afraid.
There are some subjects, which can now be seen missing, and i am chewing this a bit.

If you think they're worth discussing, you may want to start a thread on it. By the way, there is no reason you couldn't include a listing of current independent aerospace companies out there as a way to inform others. They all probably have some sort of web-presence.

Thank you I must admit, it had a kind of a selfish roots, and i hope it is an example that will not be too hard to follow. I don't feel so much at home at other parts of SDC, and it would be really nice, if some insider would put something like that together, for quarks, other members and himself in her/his/its forum.

Contributing to society in a meaningful way doesn't always have to start out as being altruistic. I'm sure the guy that invented the paperclip just got tired of dropping papers all over the place.

 

[EarthlingX]

I have arguments for each of the threads currently included. I can't take anything out, unless someone gives me a good reason. There are threads, which i can't find at the moment, not for the lack of trying, which will probably also finish there.
What i can do about it, is to keep adding them, and try to have it all somehow organized in the same post.
There are very short categories too, meaning, that maybe not everything has been said on the subject, or i can't find something of relevance.
Other thing is, i was just watching my TV on Missions and Launches, and :idea: would it not be nice to have a nice list of all the various previous launches, neatly categorized, and maybe some more :? ... zipiiiii !!! khm ... :roll: ..
Maybe a running missions thread ?

Now, how would you go about Physics ? :roll: Could you show on an example ? :twisted:

edit.
What about multiple posts, in the same thread, that get updated, as needed ?
Point is, no new page loading from the site, just listing.
Those posts could be listings into other forums too, many threads get moved to SB&T from M&L, i wish there would be more moved from Physics ...

It would also show what goes where.

edit..
There was one thread in the list .. it is no more.

edit.
How about a thread, where members post various forum related external links, with the first post being updated ?
Something like a good old
Relativity Calculator
or
Latest news and updates

 

[EarthlingX]

Judging on the last comments (except some FUDed quarks), it works. Again, it might be too soon to say but i thing it does.
Wayne ?

 

[MeteorWayne]

To be honest EarthlingX, I'm not real happy about the idea of listing a dozen threads for every subject. It will take me a while to digest whether what you are intending aligns with the ultimnate goal of the SDC Fora.

Now don't overreact, it will take some time for me to look, and of course with the budget announcement today I'm pretty darn busy putting out fires, so just be patient. For now, I'm leaving your posts as they are.

 

[EarthlingX]

To be honest EarthlingX, I'm not real happy about the idea of listing a dozen threads for every subject. It will take me a while to digest whether what you are intending aligns with the ultimnate goal of the SDC Fora.

Now don't overreact, it will take some time for me to look, and of course with the budget announcement today I'm pretty darn busy putting out fires, so just be patient. For now, I'm leaving your posts as they are.

Roger. Standing by.

 

[yevaud]

To be honest EarthlingX, I'm not real happy about the idea of listing a dozen threads for every subject.

That'd make two of us. It'd violate the idea of a quick reference to relevant threads and postings, by oversaturating the reader.

(*Mutter*, *Mutter* and make more work for us too.)

 

[EarthlingX]

To be honest EarthlingX, I'm not real happy about the idea of listing a dozen threads for every subject.

That'd make two of us. It'd violate the idea of a quick reference to relevant threads and postings, by oversaturating the reader.

(*Mutter*, *Mutter* and make more work for us too.)

I think, that first it would make sense to try to contain the chaos.
I already use it, to find references to threads, which before took me too much time to bother. For me at least, it's already easier to find other members posts, references and links. Try using it like that, and if you would like something that you use included, say so, please.
I'm not doing anything further, until we are in sync, just updates, but i don't expect that will be much.

I'm also considering taking out new threads that are still on the forum lists, but keep the bumped up in.
New ones will get into index (?) when they sink to second page, if i think they fit, or somebody suggests.

When threads get old, i post them in a new post, keep the first one fresh.
I will also put in page indexes with links, so you don't need to search for anything, just click, after the hardest part, read.

Like this.