Supported Theory: Light cannot "enter" black holes.

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">I don't agree with the idea that light cannot enter a black hole "star". Matter is slower than light and matter can be detected entering the event horizon. So if matter can be seen entering a black "stars" grasp then light should be able to enter.</font><br /><br />You are free to disagree. This is a free country. Disagreement is the source of critical feedback. Gravitational time dilation, as I have said before, is infinite at a schwarzchild radius. It makes sense that the Shapiro effect, or gravitational time delay (of Einstien's General Relativity) at such a surface would be infinite.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapiro_effect<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Gamma ray bursts, xrays, and other frequencies have been observed coming from black "stars" at their magnetic poles. Does this mean that there is no gravity there? No!</font><br /><br />Right on!<br /><br /><font color="yellow">It means that the energy can escape the magnetic field.</font><br /><br />Yes. (The field doesn't go away, it just weakens)<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Seeing that energy can escape a black "stars" poles would mean that gravity does not effect light.</font><br /><br />No, actually it does. Light travels in geodesics (caused by Gravity - see General Relativity), and light is made up of electric and magnetic fields<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_redshift<br /><br /><font color="yellow">This would mean it's the magnetic field that effects the light. I would have to conclude that if light could not enter a black star then it would be because of the magnetic field not gravity. < deductive conclusion</font><br /><br />It's affected by both.

 

[tdamskov]

The discussion on how exactly light/mass behaves in the vicinity of time dilation is very interesting. But I suspect that including "infinity" in your definition may not reflect reality, as we're dealing with finite masses/energies and time/spaces. I'm simply not sure how time dilation can be infinite near near the event horizon of a black hole with finite mass?<br /><br />Now, I'm a complete layman in this area, so I'll ask a dumb question. Do quantum effects/probabilities slow down in a time dilated area of space?<br /><br />Because if they do, it seems to me you'll have a conflict with the theory of Hawking radiation. If everything below the event horizon is infinitely time dilated including quantum effects, how can quantum tunneling ever occur from within the black hole's event horizon? Or for that matter from the mass embedded within the singularity?<br /><br />if you're talking about how light/mass behaves as it approaches within a planck length of the singularity, I've never heard or read anyone explaining with any degree of confidence what happens there. But it's probably just around the distance where our understanding of physics breaks down.

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">The discussion on how exactly light/mass behaves in the vicinity of time dilation is very interesting. But I suspect that including "infinity" in your definition may not reflect reality, as we're dealing with finite masses/energies and time/spaces.</font><br /><br />Precisely!<br /><br />Photons with infinite energy, that is, infinite blueshift, would make no sense. No multiple of a finite number can equal infinity.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">I'm simply not sure how time dilation can be infinite near near the event horizon of a black hole with finite mass?</font><br /><br />Infinite gravitational time dilation is only reached if Radius/Mass=2G/c² is attained. Since gravitational time dilation climbs very steeply (asymptotically) when a Mass/Radius approaches this value, a surface with an escape velocity of c is never attained. Light cannot exceed the speed of light because it acts like a particle as well as a wave. Positive pressure which forms particles cannot exceed the speed of light.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Now, I'm a complete layman in this area, so I'll ask a dumb question. Do quantum effects/probabilities slow down in a time dilated area of space?</font><br /><br />A photon itself has quanta in it, and we know that it is affected by gravity.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Because if they do, it seems to me you'll have a conflict with the theory of Hawking radiation. If everything below the event horizon is infinitely time dilated including quantum effects, how can quantum tunneling ever occur from within the black hole's event horizon? Or for that matter from the mass embedded within the singularity?</font><br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation<br /><br />The event horizon (which does not form under my conception of a "almost frozen" star) is under alot of stress, the energy field permeates. The resul

 

[kmarinas86]

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/gravastars_020423.html

 

[gammarayburst]

When matter enters a black star it turns into energy. So what does energy turn into when it enters?<br /><br />According to particle accelerator experiments when matter nears the speed of light the matter increases in size and mass which causes it to slow down which in turn more accelerator power has to be applied in order for the matter to gain speed which causes it to increase in size again, which can go on and on. So ask yourself does this scenario fit with what is happening to matter when it is pulled into a black stars grasp? No, <br /><br />Matter in a magnetic field has limits to its speed before it can no longer hold itself together. If some force like a black star can cause matter to accelerate past it’s speed limit then the matter turns into energy, evidence is noted when matter enters the event horizon. Likewise, I believe that energy has to maintain a certain speed in order to continue to be energy. Once the energy slows to half the speed of light within a magnetic field it becomes matter. This is why large amounts of matter called “clouds” are found around stars. This idea supports the Steady State Theory. <br /><br />So if the light cannot reach the surface of a black star and matter turns into energy when accelerated upon entering the event horizon then what you are saying is that matter cannot reach a black star either. <br /><br />Well then wouldn’t these black stars have a solid shell of matter that forms at the event horizon because it could not reach the star? It would seem logical that this theory that light cannot reach a black star is impossible. If gravity pulls matter, which is a given, then increasing the gravity would not allow anything to slow down without some other force. I cannot believe that everything slows to an infinite within a black star. The theory does not fit logically.<br /><br />It's like saying that black stars are not really there because we can not see them. The whole idea behind black stars is that at some point th

 

[jatslo]

Time dilation of the masses, in which black holes have insufficient mass to accomplish this task; however, if they are interlinked somehow, then their combined mass is sufficient to power the universe.

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">When matter enters a black star it turns into energy. So what does energy turn into when it enters?</font><br /><br />Under near infinite time-dilation, the second is very, very, very, very long, although the speed of light is still 299,792,458 meters per "second". Physically, the photon will never have infinite frequency. This is implied by the fact that, physically, time dilation cannot be infinite in value. Pair production in such a energy dense environment is eminent. The object will slowly lose mass as particles and anti-particles escape the system.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">According to particle accelerator experiments when matter nears the speed of light the matter increases in size and mass which causes it to slow down which in turn more accelerator power has to be applied in order for the matter to gain speed which causes it to increase in size again, which can go on and on. So ask yourself does this scenario fit with what is happening to matter when it is pulled into a black stars grasp?</font><br /><br />Of course not. The settings are not the same.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Matter in a magnetic field has limits to its speed before it can no longer hold itself together. If some force like a black star can cause matter to accelerate past it’s speed limit then the matter turns into energy, evidence is noted when matter enters the event horizon.</font><br /><br />The event horizon is theoretical construct where there supposedly is infinite time dilation. At the supposed event horizon, the second is infinitely long, by theoretical consequence.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Likewise, I believe that energy has to maintain a certain speed in order to continue to be energy.</font><br /><br />All energy was, is, and will continue to be energy - no matter what speed it is.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Once the energy slows to half the speed of light within a magnetic field it becomes matter.</font>

 

[jatslo]

What is a black star, kmarinas86, and did it ever occur to you that extreme temperatures turn, even the most dense materials, opaque? I can offer evidence to support my opaque statement, by the way. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[rpmath]

I think what we call a black hole with a singularity and an event horizon is the limit of what real black holes will be after infinite time:<br /><br />At http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/topics/FieldEquationsSolutions.html they have some solutions to Einstein Field equations. <br />The "Schwarzschild Black Hole--Constant Density" solution is the way you can represent a high density ball of mater before it collapses. They have just the equations with no drawing about them... that makes them very hard to understand... <br /><br />You have a high time dilation but not infinite at the center of the mass. Lets say pressure grows beyond what neutrons can support and everything starts falling to the center. Time dilation grows and mass needs always more time to continue falling... after any finite amount of time you would still have finite density and time dilation... no event horizon until infinite time pass for observers that are not falling.<br /><br />Observers falling toward the “black hole” can see the moment it forms because their clocks are slowed too... (well for a real relativity believer clocks are not slowed, falling observers just see the rest of the universe moving faster, but I think talking about those clocks been as valid as any other outside clock is going too far for relativity) but for external universe the black hole will not get a real event horizon in a finite amount of time.

 

[tdamskov]

I found an interesting link trying to explain part of your questions here.<br /><br />http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/htmltest/gifcity/bh_pub_faq.html#fall_in<br />

 

[nexium]

There is a sizable group of astronomers who reserve the term star for main sequence, so "black star" is confusing. It could refer to failed stars that have too little mass to sustain nuclear fusion, but there are several other possibilities.<br />Black holes do not have a surface. Theories suggest magic things happen at the event horizon, but my guess is this is error especially for billion and trillion solar mass black holes. Matter-energy- matter-energy transformations occur close to the singularity of these super massive black holes and at least slightly outside the event horizon for medium and low mass black holes if any. The amount of time dialation depends on the speed and direction of the observer (or infalling mass) Neil

 

[micro10]

You funny people! Light can enter a black hole' Einstien did not know that his theory of general Relativity was wrong.. I discovered the real theory application of General Relativity is Vacuum example: A black Hole is the Result of a Greater vacuum warp in space and time.. But not all stars that have a mass that is 3 times larger then our Sun that have losts it's inner gravity will cause a vacuum warp known as a black hole in space because it depends on it's chemical mass that causes this kind of phenomeno... Do the Math guy's, I am telling the Truth I figured this out years ago and told News Media...Also light can be slowed up or speeded up!...Dig deeper it is not exactly gravity that slows light but?? figure it out for yourself, Do more research!!

 

[tdamskov]

You are somewhat incoherent in your ramblings. Can you please elaborate?<br /><br />1. General Relativity is wrong? How?<br />2. A vaacum warp? What is that?<br />3. Lost inner gravity?<br />4. Chemical mass?<br />5. What math, do you have some math for us before we try it ourselves?<br />6. If you're a genius capable of proving general relativity wrong, explaining your solution to us amateurs should be no trouble at all. Please go right ahead.<br />

 

[kmarinas86]

Steve believes time can stop, and that photons can have infinite energy, momentum, and frequency.<br /><br />He believes a photon can attain infinity.<br /><br />Utter nonsense <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />