Terraforming Luna

[bearack]

<p>Me and my curiosity!</p><p>What challenges and is it even fesable to Terraform Luna?&nbsp; I know gas retention in an artificial atmosphere would be one of the greatest challenges, but there are some mighty bright minds here that I suspect could drum up some interesting possibilities.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><br /><img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Me and my curiosity!What challenges and is it even fesable to Terraform Luna?&nbsp; I know gas retention in an artificial atmosphere would be one of the greatest challenges, but there are some mighty bright minds here that I suspect could drum up some interesting possibilities.&nbsp; <br />Posted by bearack</DIV></p><p>If you are talking about terraforming in the sense of being able to grow plants and walk around on the surface without a spacesuit, that is impossible. The moon's gravity and environment preclude it.</p><p>If you are talking about above/below ground domes where the same thing is possible, sure it can be done. Is the cost reasonable? I don't think so.</p><p>Wayne</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bearack]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If you are talking about terraforming in the sense of being able to grow plants and walk around on the surface without a spacesuit, that is impossible. The moon's gravity and environment preclude it.If you are talking about above/below ground domes where the same thing is possible, sure it can be done. Is the cost reasonable? I don't think so.Wayne <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />Is the moons low gravity due to it being tidally locked and could the moon be persuaded to rotate?</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><br /><img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Is the moons low gravity due to it being tidally locked and could the moon be persuaded to rotate?&nbsp; <br />Posted by bearack</DIV></p><p>No, the moons's low gravity is due to it's low mass and low density.</p><p>Rotation has nothing whatsoever to do with it.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[crazyeddie]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Me and my curiosity!What challenges and is it even fesable to Terraform Luna?&nbsp; I know gas retention in an artificial atmosphere would be one of the greatest challenges, but there are some mighty bright minds here that I suspect could drum up some interesting possibilities.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by bearack</DIV></p><p>Personally, I think Luna would serve the needs of mankind better by remaining in it's natural state. &nbsp;Mars is the only world worth the time and money to terraform.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[KosmicHero]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Personally, I think Luna would serve the needs of mankind better by remaining in it's natural state. &nbsp;Mars is the only world worth the time and money to terraform.&nbsp; <br />Posted by crazyeddie</DIV><br /><br />Honestly, I think Venus would be the terraforming challenge I would like to work on.&nbsp; It seems like it would be easier to remove an abundance of greenhouse gases than transporting them.&nbsp; </p><p>The moon is right out.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> kosmichero.wordpress.com </div>

 

[qso1]

<p><font color="#800080">Me and my curiosity!What challenges and is it even fesable to Terraform Luna?&nbsp; I know gas retention in an artificial atmosphere would be one of the greatest challenges, but there are some mighty bright minds here that I suspect could drum up some interesting possibilities. <br /> Posted by bearack</font></p><p>IMO, we have a loooooong way before we ever get to the point of terraforming capability. By the time we are able to do that, if ever...the technology developed for that task may well be barely recognizeable to us today.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Honestly, I think Venus would be the terraforming challenge I would like to work on.&nbsp; It seems like it would be easier to remove an abundance of greenhouse gases than transporting them.&nbsp; The moon is right out. <br /> Posted by KosmicHero</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>We have a hard enough time just landing probes on Venus due to the pressures and temperatures. &nbsp;Terraforming doesn't seem like much of an option. &nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[KosmicHero]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;We have a hard enough time just landing probes on Venus due to the pressures and temperatures. &nbsp;Terraforming doesn't seem like much of an option. &nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>The most likely method of terraforming anywhere is likely going to be to send bioengineered microbes.&nbsp; On Venus's thick atmosphere the microbes could float and consume the Carbon Dioxide and release oxygen and other gases less contributory to 'greenhouse' effect. &nbsp;</p><p>On Mars you have, maybe, some water ice and some very limited CO2 in the atmosphere.&nbsp; It's going to be really hard to make an earthlike atmosphere with so little.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> kosmichero.wordpress.com </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#3366ff">Honestly, I think Venus would be the terraforming challenge I would like to work on.&nbsp; It seems like it would be easier to remove an abundance of greenhouse gases than transporting them. <br /></font><strong>Posted by KosmicHero</strong></DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm with you.&nbsp; Admittedly I don't understand the processes required as well as most, but intuitively I&nbsp;feel Venus is a much better long-term candidate than Mars.&nbsp; The terraforming fascination with Mars seems to primarily revolve around the idea that it is currently relatively human-friendly when compared with Venus.&nbsp; You could go and stand on the surface of Mars right now if you could get there.</p><p>Whereas Venus is currently inhospitable in the extreme, it's closer to Earth-sized, it's closer to Earth and closer to the warmth of the Sun.&nbsp; If you can remove the Carbon from the atmosphere, you'll solve the temperature problem.&nbsp; Taking away seems a far easier option than adding, even if the intial going would be technically challenging.&nbsp;(or outright fanciful depending on your level of optimism)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>SK&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/3/9caa8d22-f4fc-4519-93f2-faf88cdd07ed.Medium.gif" alt="" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[silylene old]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;I'm with you.&nbsp; Admittedly I don't understand the processes required as well as most, but intuitively I&nbsp;feel Venus is a much better long-term candidate than Mars........<font color="#ff0000">If you can remove the Carbon from the atmosphere, you'll solve the temperature problem.</font>&nbsp; Taking away seems a far easier option than adding, even if the intial going would be technically challenging.&nbsp;(or outright fanciful depending on your level of optimism)&nbsp;SK&nbsp; <br />Posted by SpaceKiwi</DIV><br /><br />I think you'd want to remove all the sufuric acid aerosols from the venusian atmosphere, also.&nbsp; It would be better for the lungs.</p><p>However, these sulfuric aerosols have a very pronounced climate cooling effect.&nbsp; Removing this component&nbsp;could create quite a challenge in cooling the atmosphere, even if the CO2 is absent.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[neuvik]

<p>Terraforming Venus would be a toughy, not much Nitrogen or Oxygen.&nbsp; Temperatures of 840*F would make any terrestrial based projectimpossible, no plants could survive....except maybe those new bacteria found in the hydrothermal vents at the bottem of our ocean. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It is also believed that most of the Hydrogen was lost to space too since most of the landers did not any, so no water.&nbsp; Oh yea theres also the clouds of sulfric acid to deal with.</p><p>&nbsp;I suppose we could get rid of some of the CO2 by throwing Calcium at the planet. But you still need water, and Nitrogen.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp; Maybe a nifty disc to block the suns rays, cool down the planet a bit and see if that makes it more managable.&nbsp;&nbsp; ofcourse that disc would need to revolve around the sun with the Venus. &nbsp; oh well, least if fun to dream a bit.</p><p>&nbsp;Oh and I think we should keep the moon untarnished and made in to a reserve; need to keep Moon rocks in their natural habitat! </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">I don't think I'm alone when I say, "I hope more planets fall under the ruthless domination of Earth!"</font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff">SDC Boards: Power by PLuck - Ph**king Luck</font></p> </div>

 

[crazyeddie]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;I'm with you.&nbsp; Admittedly I don't understand the processes required as well as most, but intuitively I&nbsp;feel Venus is a much better long-term candidate than Mars.&nbsp; The terraforming fascination with Mars seems to primarily revolve around the idea that it is currently relatively human-friendly when compared with Venus.&nbsp; You could go and stand on the surface of Mars right now if you could get there.Whereas Venus is currently inhospitable in the extreme, it's closer to Earth-sized, it's closer to Earth and closer to the warmth of the Sun.&nbsp; If you can remove the Carbon from the atmosphere, you'll solve the temperature problem.&nbsp; Taking away seems a far easier option than adding, even if the intial going would be technically challenging.&nbsp;(or outright fanciful depending on your level of optimism)&nbsp;SK&nbsp; <br /> Posted by SpaceKiwi</DIV></p><p>Venus has no water, so how are the microorganisms you release into the atmosphere going to survive? &nbsp;We know of no forms of life that can exist without water. &nbsp;And what are you going to do about the planet's slow rotation? &nbsp;You say "taking away seems a far easier option than adding", but not when you're trying to remove billions of tons of material up and out of a relatively deep gravity well. &nbsp;</p><p>We may be able to terraform Venus someday, after we develop god-like engineering capabilities, but for now, terraforming Mars is a piece of cake in comparison. &nbsp;It has water, an earth-like rotation, earth-like landforms, an abundance of minerals and metals we could mine and use for building an infrastructure. &nbsp;Simply put, once we get there, we could start the process of terraforming Mars immediately. &nbsp;With Venus, we can't even set foot on it's surface!</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Simply put, once we get there, we could start the process of terraforming Mars immediately. &nbsp;With Venus, we can't even set foot on it's surface! <br /> Posted by crazyeddie</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Exactly. &nbsp;The only thing keeping us from tackling Mars is the willpower of refraining from wasting resources on fruitless endeavors such as war. &nbsp;We already have the technology and know-how, now we just need to pool our resources and it can be done. (edited to clarify that 'us' and 'our' does not mean one nation, rather the human race).</p><p>Venus, quite simply, has too many hurdles to overcome with what we know. &nbsp;Maybe someday when we can start harvesting comets and guide them into Venus.</p><p>As was already mentioned, Mars is attractive because (if we ever get our act together), we can put boots on the ground and get to work.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[samkent]

<p>There are three things stopping us.</p><p>Money</p><p>Technology</p><p>Willpower</p><p>The ISS is totally dependant on resupply from Earth. Until we can become independant in LEO we have no business attempting long stays on Mars.&nbsp;&nbsp; Not even a PR mission is worth the expense.</p>

 

[KosmicHero]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There are three things stopping us.MoneyTechnologyWillpowerThe ISS is totally dependant on resupply from Earth. Until we can become independant in LEO we have no business attempting long stays on Mars.&nbsp;&nbsp; Not even a PR mission is worth the expense. <br /> Posted by samkent</DIV></p><p>Not to stray too far from the thread title, but I agree.&nbsp; We should not hurriedly go to Mars only to realize that we didn't plan to stay.&nbsp; The money and technology exist (they are misappropriated maybe) but the will sadly doesn't even come close.</p><p>I know this has been mentioned on previous threads but a solid economic case must be for these dreams to come true.&nbsp; The only other option is the military case but I'm not holding my breath for that one.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> kosmichero.wordpress.com </div>

 

[bearack]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Venus has no water, so how are the microorganisms you release into the atmosphere going to survive? &nbsp;We know of no forms of life that can exist without water. &nbsp;And what are you going to do about the planet's slow rotation? &nbsp;You say "taking away seems a far easier option than adding", but not when you're trying to remove billions of tons of material up and out of a relatively deep gravity well. &nbsp;We may be able to terraform Venus someday, after we develop god-like engineering capabilities, but for now, terraforming Mars is a piece of cake in comparison. &nbsp;It has water, an earth-like rotation, earth-like landforms, an abundance of minerals and metals we could mine and use for building an infrastructure. &nbsp;Simply put, once we get there, we could start the process of terraforming Mars immediately. &nbsp;With Venus, we can't even set foot on it's surface! <br />Posted by crazyeddie</DIV><br /><br />I was under the impression that the Venesian&nbsp;mesospher contain a decent percentage of water vapor? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><br /><img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /></p> </div>

 

[bearack]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not to stray too far from the thread title, but I agree.&nbsp; We should not hurriedly go to Mars only to realize that we didn't plan to stay.&nbsp; The money and technology exist (they are misappropriated maybe) but the will sadly doesn't even come close.I know this has been mentioned on previous threads but a solid economic case must be for these dreams to come true.&nbsp; The only other option is the military case but I'm not holding my breath for that one.&nbsp; <br />Posted by KosmicHero</DIV><br /><br />Personally, I think it would take only a discovery of a foreign energy source, microbial evidence of life or even the discovery of liquid water on an extraterrestrial world to get the dollars flowing and another mega space race.</p><p>What we need to push things along is a discovery of some sort.&nbsp; Everything will change once that happens.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><br /><img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I was under the impression that the Venesian&nbsp;mesospher contain a decent percentage of water vapor? <br />Posted by bearack</DIV><br /><br />Not at all. I just read (can't recall where) if all the water in the Venusian atmosphere were precipitated out it would only be a few cm thick. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Personally, I think it would take only a discovery of a foreign energy source, microbial evidence of life or even the discovery of liquid water on an extraterrestrial world to get the dollars flowing and another mega space race.What we need to push things along is a discovery of some sort.&nbsp; Everything will change once that happens. <br />Posted by bearack</DIV><br /><br />Then cross you fingers for the Phoenix mission which lands on Mars one month from today!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bearack]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Then cross you fingers for the Phoenix mission which lands on Mars one month from today!! <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />Oh, I will.&nbsp; Can't wait to see the forst week of data after landing.&nbsp; I think or feel we will probably get some decent surprises just in that first week.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><br /><img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /></p> </div>

 

[KosmicHero]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Oh, I will.&nbsp; Can't wait to see the forst week of data after landing.&nbsp; I think or feel we will probably get some decent surprises just in that first week.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by bearack</DIV></p><p>If you don't want to wait for the press releases, you can see the raw data at http://pds.jpl.nasa.gov/. Who knows, you might find something that the prinicipal investigators missed and you could write a paper about it and become famous.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> kosmichero.wordpress.com </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If you don't want to wait for the press releases, you can see the raw data at http://pds.jpl.nasa.gov/. Who knows, you might find something that the prinicipal investigators missed and you could write a paper about it and become famous.&nbsp; <br />Posted by KosmicHero</DIV><br /><br />I assure you, there are several of we space junkies who will be tuned in for the blow by blow information!!</p><p>Right Andrew???</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;... but intuitively I&nbsp;feel Venus is a much better long-term candidate than Mars.&nbsp; The terraforming fascination&nbsp;...&nbsp; If you can remove the Carbon from the atmosphere, you'll solve the temperature problem.&nbsp; Taking away seems a far easier option than adding, even if the intial going would be technically challenging.&nbsp;(or outright fanciful depending on your level of optimism)&nbsp;SK&nbsp; <br />Posted by SpaceKiwi</DIV></p><p>I'm not sure we could terraform Earth.&nbsp; We have enough problems with simply managing water resources and irrigation.&nbsp; See the thread that MeteorWayne started on parts for a water barrel.</p><p>Thee are basically two kinds of difficult large-scale&nbsp;technical problems.</p><p>In the first kind of problem, one knows in principle how to proceed but perhaps lacks the necessary resources.&nbsp; Given sufficient, time, money and manpower that sort of problem can definitely be solved.&nbsp; The&nbsp;problem&nbsp;of putting a man on the moon was this sort of&nbsp;problem.&nbsp; It required some innovation, a lot of hard work, and quite a bit of money.&nbsp; But the basic physics and most of the engineering were understood ahead of time.&nbsp; We knew we could do it.</p><p>The second kind of problem is one in which the objective is clear, but the fundamental knowledge necessary to achieve it is lacking.&nbsp; It is clear that no solution will be found without the expenditure of large amounts of time, manpower and money.&nbsp; However, it is not clear that a solution will be found even if massive amounts of resources are dedicated, because of a fundamental ignorance as to how those resources ought to be deployed.&nbsp; An easy example of such a problem is practical interstellar travel.&nbsp; Another is terraforming.</p><p>Lift capability to move equipment to the Moon, Mars, or Venus is not the big problem -- although daunting itself. We have no idea what equipment would be needed or what to do with it if managed to get it there.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[danhezee]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Personally, I think it would take only a discovery of a foreign energy source, microbial evidence of life or even the discovery of liquid water on an extraterrestrial world to get the dollars flowing and another mega space race.What we need to push things along is a discovery of some sort.&nbsp; Everything will change once that happens. <br /> Posted by bearack</DIV><br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">I think we have the energy source on the moon, helium 3. What we don&rsquo;t have is the infrastructure to harness it, yet.<span>&nbsp; </span>Mainly because the lack of research for helium 3 fusion, since helium 3 is so rare on earth.<span>&nbsp; </span>Luckily NASA has 2 centennial challenges, related to harvesting helium 3.<span>&nbsp; </span>The lunar regolith excavation challenge http://regolith.csewi.org/about and the moon ROx challenge http://moonrox.csewi.org/ .<span>&nbsp; </span>Those contests don&rsquo;t deal directly with helium 3 but the technology would be very similar.<span>&nbsp; </span>Also, if NASA has a challenge it is also funding closely related SBIR and STTR.<span>&nbsp; </span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">As far as preserving the moon, why?<span>&nbsp; </span>And especially why, if you want to terraform another heavenly body?<span>&nbsp; </span>The moon has no life to protect so that means it has no habitat to preserve.<span>&nbsp; </span>And if the moon can offer us a reliable energy source why not? <span>&nbsp;</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">Also, helium 3 is extremely valuable; valuable enough to make the economic of space flight and moon excavation pay for its self and still turn a profit.<span>&nbsp; </span>I think helium 3 reactors would look better on this planet since the reactors wouldn&rsquo;t have such a large footprint on the landscape compared to the eye sore of miles and miles and miles and miles and miles of wind farms, solar cells, wave generators, tide generators, and more dams on the rivers as the new means of energy production. </font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>