Terrestrial Planet Finder is Dead.

[tomnackid]

"It's one of those rare moments that I am actually glad to define myself as European.At least ESA doesn't waste so much money on amusing public in useless projects."<br />------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />I'm by no means an arrogant American flag waver, but if your not even an American you really don't have any right to say what you think NASA should or shouldn't do--that's for American citizens. <br /><br />I can understand that you may be disappointed if a project you are interested in is not funded, but grow up! For every research project funded there are hundreds that aren't and they all have scientist and engineers who grumble about how much more important their project is than any other. The fact is NASA is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. Fund manned exploration and you are hurting basic research. Fund basic science and you lack vision. Try to balance the two and you are unfocused. The reality is that not every pet project can get funding. Trying to make everyone happy is a sure recipe for failure.

 

[toymaker]

"So, the Millenium Dome, the Eiffel Tower, the Nuremburg Rallies, or the Roman Colloseum as such?"<br /><br />What do they have to do with European Space Agency ?

 

[spayss]

Vishniac:<br /><br />True,<br /><br />Who would have thought at the time of Apollo that China might be the only sanity left in manned space exploration.

 

[mlorrey]

Hermes, the space plane that ESA proposed (which you conveniently edited out of the quote, so you are misquoting me, as well) is one of a long line (listed) of frivolous projects europeans have built for public amusement. I might also add many other projects that ESA has proposed which are far beyond its budgetary means: the Sanger spaceplane, Beta SSTO, among a number of others. ESA like any other government agency, is not immune to hubris and pretension.

 

[egom]

There is always a difference between what you want to do and what you can do. As you get older you start to see that difference more often. I like this Griffin guy, it seems to me that he is the type of guy that knows what he can do and more important what he can't do. We all dream but here we are talking about billions that can be lost. I am running a business and I know that sometimes you lost 95% of a project because you do not have the remaining 5% to finish it. Same here.<br />It is sad to see that your pet project is postponed indefinetly but such is life...<br /><br />EgoM

 

[spayss]

A bizarre analogy. Running a business. If NASA was a business the Shuttle would have been scrapped years ago. The business goal is launch a week....and we have done what!!!???!!!!<br /><br />Any business would have went belly up on such a pathetic performance.

 

[nexium]

It is possible that the terrestral planet finder was defered because the plan for it's implimentation had several likely flaws.<br /> It's my understanding that the habital zone of class M stars, is only a few miles above the photosphere, inside the Roach limit, and that many Class M stars produce nasty CMEs = corronal mass ejections. An advanced race likely can build an outpost on a planet, asteroid, comet or moon where the temperature rarely warms to -39 degrees f =<br />-39 degrees c. Such planets, and moons may be common orbiting class M and class K stars, but they would flunk most tests as terrestrial planets. Neil

 

[mikeemmert]

I think the Europa orbiter is an indirect casualty of the coming war with Iran over enrichment. They are looking to kill any reactor which uses bomb-grade material, highly enriched uranium, plutonium, or U-233, so we can set a "moral example" for the Iranians.<br /><br />That's the way politicians think. No bomb grade material. None. Zero. Zilch. No excuses, no matter what they are. Stuff's banned, no matter what you're trying to do. You can't do that, it's the law, you're trying to make BOMBS!, you <i>can't</i> fool <i>me</i>!<br /><br />Next, they'll ban the whole concept of nuclear power. Ban the atom!<br /><br />Back to the stone age, folks...Sentinel Island, here we come!

 

[kdavis007]

Space is not about science.....

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">The project is deferred not cancelled guys.</font>/i><br /><br />The problem is the word following "deferred": "The Terrestrial Planet Finding project (TPF) has been deferred <b><i>indefinitely</i></b>."</i>

 

[kdavis007]

Boy I hope saving the Hubble was worth it. Why can't the Planetary Society fund the tpf themselves???

 

[kdavis007]

At least the Hubble is going get fixed...

 

[cuddlyrocket]

I meant spend the money allocated to <i>unmanned science missions</i> on something other than TPF, which is not worth the cost. (Neither is Darwin.)

 

[meteo]

"It was clear from the outset that either the TPF or Darwin would be cancelled, no need for two similar projects in this world. And this time, surprise, not the parallel European project was cancelled, rather NASA's proposal.<br /><br />Thus, ESA will go forward with Darwin taking NASA along as one of the junior partners. That it flys by 2015 is doubtful, but that this project is moving forward is certain."<br /><br />Yes, I remeber reading that it was unlikely that we were going to have both, that it would be one or the other. The two have simillar capabilities. It's dissapointing that we won't have both since extrasolar planets are one of the most exciting fields of astronomy. I was expecting it to be one or the other although I was expecting Darwin not TPF to be cancelled.

 

[erioladastra]

"It was clear from the outset that either the TPF or Darwin would be cancelled, no need for two similar projects in this world. And this time, surprise, not the parallel European project was cancelled, rather NASA's proposal. <br /><br />Thus, ESA will go forward with Darwin taking NASA along as one of the junior partners. That it flys by 2015 is doubtful, but that this project is moving forward is certain."<br /><br />I don't know much about Darwin, but TPF had some very serious technological issues to work out - it was in trouble. It likely would have gone over budget and been delayed. Plus there was overlap with other techniques so it really killed itself.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">ut TPF had some very serious technological issues to work out - it was in trouble. It likely would have gone over budget and been delayed.</font>/i><br /><br />From little bits and pieces I have been picking up from Griffin, I think he sees this as a major issue. Those of us in R&D like to stretch ourselves, sometimes really stretch beyond what we know we can do, and this often means failure.<br /><br />I think I remember a DARPA manager saying something to the effect that 90% of the efforts are expected to fail (or at least not reach their hoped for targets). For DARPA this is fine -- taking risks it is what the program was designed to do. The budgets are relatively small, and the results are supposed to be proof-of-concepts or prototypes at best. Once proven, the successful results are thrown over the wall for the more traditional development efforts.<br /><br />I think too often NASA combined the desire to stretch themselves with large production systems (e.g., TPF). I believe before NASA commits to a large production system (be it the Shuttle, TPF, JIMO, or whatever), they should have most of the technological issues worked out before hand using smaller-scale DARPA-class programs.<br /><br />It isn't that NASA shouldn't stretch itself. Or that NASA shouldn't do large programs. It just shouldn't combine the two.</i>

 

[pirx_the_pilot]

Just a feeling. But There may be more than just TPF getting sacrificed. Read somewhere how all NASA science looks to be taking a hit. Manned space ain't cheap.

 

[kdavis007]

Oh Well....

 

[galactichalo]

NASA may do a joint mission with ESA like it has done with SOHO and Cassini-Huygens<br /><br />Darwin<br />http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMD3J8J50F_index_0.html

 

[kdavis007]

Not a bad idea...

 

[azorean5000]

Can anyone confirm that the TPF is cancelled? I mean there were a large NASA report on TPF in march this year, and NASA continues to have it on his site, including experiments: http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/news/spheresUpdate.cfm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mithridates]

Though this has nothing to do with TPF, there's some good news in a new telescope just finished that'll be able to contribute to finding planets and determining their atmospheres:<br /><br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6897293.stm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[azorean5000]

Can anyone confirm? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>