Terriform a portion of Venus

[nexium]

This is adapted from terriform Venus ideas here and elsewhere, and the 11 kilometer peak a few hundred kilometers from the North pole of Venus. Please embellish, refute and/or comment.<br />This is of interest to me as the location for partially terriforming a small (size of Australia) portion of Venus. A snow fence with a radius of about 2000 kilometers surounds the pole and the 11 kilometer peak. Fence circumfrence about 12,566 kilometers catches dust, raising the elevation. Portions of the fence need to be moved or replaced anually. In about 10,000 years, the area inside the fence may reach an average elevation of 11 kilometers, with some parts perhaps 20 kilometers. The high elevation cools the platau to perhaps 300 degrees c. A giant Sun shade a million or so kilometers from Venus in the sunward direction cools the platau to about 150 degrees c. This allows it to rain sulpheric acid on the platau. Just before the first rain falls the lower portions of the platau are covered with an impervious layer so the acid does not sink below the surface of the platau which is likely still hot enough to boil sulpheric acid. Over about 10,000 more years nearly all of the sulpheric acid in the atmosphere of Venus will be trapped in artificial acquifers of the great polar platau. Venus can then be bombared with ice comets, which will permit real water rain to fall on the polar platau. With a new giant sun shade which is transparent only to photons best for photo synthesis, we can now grow crops on the highest elevations of the polar platau. Genetically altered humans can tend these crops naked except for an oxygen face mask. Since the atmosphere is still about 90% carbon dioxide, a prothesis is need to remove carbon dioxide from the blood. It may take a million years to get the carbon dioxide of all of Venus below 1%, even with extensive agriculture on the great polar platau. There are numerious ways to hurry the terriforming process, but most require enormous resourses. More d

 

[ianke]

Where do you get the snow? Just for starters.<br /><br />How do you keep snow at those Temperatures?<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[brellis]

It's all way over my head, but I wonder if the giant sunshade could be a dome that also protects against radiation and makes the pole more immediately habitable by a decent-sized human population. Can a domed community also be the site of partial planetary terraforming? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[qso1]

I would say a giant dome could be made to protect from radiation because if we can build a dome large enough to block sunlight, even partially. It will be thick enough to stop most, if not all radiation.<br /><br />I'm not sure I follow your question about the domed community being the site of a terraforming. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

I should have used 'colony' instead of 'community'. To me, terraforming is a thousands-of-years process that can be done with a human 'outpost' at the site. In my mind, a 'colony' would have a permanent human population, whereas an 'outpost' would house only a few temporary, occasional residents. <br /><br />My question: If the polar region of Venus is a candidate for terraforming, could it also serve as a site for a human 'colony' living in the protection of a giant de-pressurized dome during the terraforming process? <br /><br />Or, does colonization have to wait millenia until the region has breathable air? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[qso1]

I agree with the distinction of colony and outpost and more likely a colony would be terraforming. Could the pole serve as a location for a domed colony? Don't see why not although I don't think the location matters much. As I recall, Venus does not have significant enough difference in temps for there to be a useful enough difference in temperatures. Especially given that if one is going to terraform the place, the technology should be advanced enough to deal with temps regardless of location.<br /><br />The colonization would probably continue in domes rather than wait for terraforming to finish. If it takes a millinia to terraform, then there probably won't be a very sharp cutoff that determines when terraforming is done. An example being that it may be decades for the atmosphere to become fully breathable. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[nexium]

You can see an image of the Venus North pole region and the 11 kilometer peak at Ishtar terra at www.wikipedia.com <br />Click on the image to get a larger version.<br />A dome at the top of the peak would be challanging as the pressure is still about 50 times that of Earth. unless the dome had a hydrogen atmosphere with 0.42% oxygen and some water vapor at about 50 times atmospheres pressure . The outside temperature is about 300 degrees c so air conditioning would also be a major challange, until the giant sun shade was in place. Neil

 

[ianke]

I have a question. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but what possible benefit would there be to doing all of this on Venus. I could understand maybe going there with a manned mission for the science, but to set up housekeeping seems a big waste of manpower, and treasures. For what possible gain is this even remotely beneficial to mankind.<br /><br />It seems to me that going the other way (away from the Sun) makes much more sense and bang for the buck. You are talking herculean tasks here. Am I missing something? I really would like to know.<br /><br />Ianke <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

I'll try and answer that.<br /><br />To us at the present time, this does seem and indeed is impractical/impossible given it would be much easier seemingly to terraform a planet like mars. The best way to think of this is "Think future"...way into the future where it may be within the realm of possibility and practicality to terraform a planet like Venus.<br /><br />In addition to that, we don't see any good reason to terraform Venus from the 2007 or even 21C vantage point. But what if in 2430? For this discussion, its more an exercise in thought than anything. But such exercises have the potential to yield information previously unthought or unknown.<br /><br />Hope thats at least as clear as smoked glass. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

The link is the main wiki site. I googled planet Venus wiki and found an image which shows the poles as imaged by radar on board the Magellan probe I think.<br /><br />And I certainly agree with what you said. Kinda hard to imagine a polar region at 300C if one relates the poles to earthly poles, or even martian ones. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Saw a real color image of Venus at Wiki as well. Years ago I modeled the planet in Lightwave 3D and used it in a book I was writing at the time. I wanted to portray the planet as it would appear to human eyes and turns out I wasn't too far off. The real one is just a bit more yellow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[mithridates]

Though still quite a bit of pressure, apparently at 10 km altitude it's 50 times that of Earth, not 80. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[bdewoody]

Why try this on Venus when there are much easier places to establish human colonies? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Creating a 'cold trap' exposed to the Venusian atmosphere will result in all kinds of toxic gunk condensing out of the atmosphere in your 'enclave'.<br /><br />Not a pretty sight.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[nexium]

I changed the 80 to 50.<br />Mars, Mecury's poles, some asteroids and Earth's moon are likely easier to colonize, but unpleasent surpises are likely anywhere off Earth. The thick atmosphere of Venus does provide excellent radiation and impactor protection.<br />The temperature data so far indicates little temperature difference between day and night or with distance from the equator likely due to the very thick atmosphere which moves rapidly.<br />A cool platau at the north pole will likely have a powerful down draft that will deliver dust from elsewhere on Venus. Neil

 

[MeteorWayne]

"cool" is relative <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

We should forge t Venus.You can never terraform it.

 

[nexium]

Never say never. We don't know what will be possible in a thousand years or even next week. I suggested doing the polar region (partially) as that is likely much less difficult and costly than fully terriforming all of Venus.<br />With a big enough sun shade, it should snow dry ice = frozen carbon dioxide on the great polar platau. Neil

 

[alokmohan]

Sun shade hoax!!

 

[brellis]

I dunno squat about chemistry, but is there a way to use elements in the atmosphere to build a gigantic terrarium for our use? Perhaps a facility can be deposited in the atmosphere that gradually transforms sulfuric acid into something we can use to "pave" a tubular container at an elevation where the atmospheric pressure is tolerable for humans, or to support your "snow fence" at the pole. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[nexium]

There are some wrong assumptions about sunshades, but they are possible if an ion engine or equivelent keeps them at the optimum position including yaw and pitch.<br />Normally CNT is made from methane CH4, but we will likely invent a way to make CNT from carbon dioxide. CNT is a strong form of carbon, so likely almost any type of structure can be made from the carbon dioxide which is 95% of the atmosphere of Venus. Neil

 

[alokmohan]

Does not seem possible now.

 

[bdewoody]

Lots of thing are possible but I think the bigger question is whether it will ever be practical and/or profitable. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>