The 1st few seconds of the Big Bang: What we know and what we don't

https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.16182, the preprint link cited in the report. I am always amazed at the BB model and energy, density, temperatures, rate of expansion of 3D space, etc. The cosmology calculators work with H0 expansion rate back to the time the CMBR forms, this about 380,000 years after BB event,https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/help/cosmology_calc.html .

Tracing *our* origins back beyond this gets dicey (tracing our origins back before the cosmic fireball) :) Planck time, Planck length, inflation epoch. Using H0 = 69 km/s/Mpc today, that is 2.236 x 10^-18 cm/s/cm using CGS. What do we encounter during inflation? 3D space could be expanding faster than 10^30 cm/s (> 10^20 c) so some 10^48 or more magnitude change in space expansion rate, takes place slowing down :) What happened to the cosmological constant? Did someone use repulsive gravity (Alan Guth does)? How did we end up in our universe with 2.236 x 10^-18 cm/s/cm space expansion rate (H0 = 69 km/s/Mpc) instead of space expanding so fast, nothing forms in the universe, no Moon, no CMBR? Then there is the temperature change. Going back to nearly Planck time, the temperature could be 10^27 to more than 10^31 Kelvin, just read various inflation reports on NASA ADS Abstract service. The CMBR forms plunging to about 2.7 K today. Currently the universe diameter in BB cosmology reported is 93 billion light-years across, https://phys.org/news/2021-03-myths-big.html. That is about 8.8 x 10^28 cm so comparing to inflation rate of expansion, the expansion of space can zip past this distance very quickly :)
 
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https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.16182, the preprint link cited in the report. I am always amazed at the BB model and energy, density, temperatures, rate of expansion of 3D space, etc. The cosmology calculators work with H0 expansion rate back to the time the CMBR forms, this about 380,000 years after BB event,https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/help/cosmology_calc.html .
That's interesting if indeed H0 begins with the CMBR. I never thought about it, but it makes sense. Just prior to the event that created the CMBR , the light scattering by electrons, etc., would have produced a faster expansion rate, so once atoms formed, that internal pressure would be less.
 
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Helio, I had to study this issue with the cosmology calculators and H0 before *some of the math* started to sink in to my thick head and consulting Allen's Astrophysical Quantities, Fourth Edition, 2000. :) The arXiv link cited in the space.com article is a 67 page report with 28 references to *expansion of space* and 5 references to *cosmological constant*. It all looks very sensitive to various rate changes for expanding space and other parameters used to arrive at the CMBR observed. This report includes some easier numbers for me to look at on inflation epoch, 'The Founder of Cosmic Inflation Theory on Cosmology's Next Big Ideas', https://www.scientificamerican.com/...nflation-theory-on-cosmologys-next-big-ideas/

"Our universe began with a bang—a big bang. The explosion stretched the very fabric of spacetime, sending superheated matter in all directions. As it expanded, the matter cooled and started to aggregate, forming atoms, then elements, then stars, galaxies and, ultimately, all we know and see today. For physicist and cosmologist Alan Guth, one big question about the big bang remains: “What was it that banged?” The answer lies in his theory of cosmic inflation. “It sets up the conditions for the big bang—like a prequel,” says Guth, a professor of physics at MIT. For developing that theory, Guth and two of his colleagues, Andrei Linde at Stanford University and Alexei Starobinsky at the Landau Institute for Theoretical Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences near Moscow, were awarded the 2014 Kavli Prize in astrophysics. According to the theory, for less than a millionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second after the universe's birth, an exotic form of matter exerted a counterintuitive force: gravitational repulsion. Although we normally think of gravity as being attractive (picture Isaac Newton and the falling apple), Albert Einstein’s theory of general relativity allows for such a force. Under the conditions present in the early universe, when temperatures were extraordinarily high, Guth says the existence of this material was reasonably likely. “It only has to be a speck,” he says. “But when that speck starts to inflate, the expansion is exponential.”...2. Gravitational repulsion expands spacetime itself at more than a billion trillion times the speed of light."

My observation. The time of cosmic inflation is 10^-36 s to 10^-32 s. The spacetime expansion rate > 10^31 cm/s (> 10^21 c). Repulsive gravity looks like a flavor of the cosmological constant in use, i.e., cosmological constant that is positive, and repulsive. Consider H0 reports today ranging from 66 to 82 km/s/Mpc. This works out in cgs units in cm/s/cm 2.14 x 10^-18 to 2.66 x 10^-18. So, inflation expansion rates some 10^49 greater than the present value for H0 and rate of expansion of spacetime. The formation of the CMBR must emerge from a vastly different early universe and expansion rate vs. present H0 used to calculate back to the origin of the CMBR for Hubble time, about 380,000 years after the BB. The cosmological constant is involved in all this too.

Okay, my head is spinning now in all of this :)
 
Helio et al. Here is another report that parallels this article. Post-inflation cosmology :) Astrophysicists simulate microscopic clusters from the Big Bang, https://phys.org/news/2021-03-astrophysicists-simulate-microscopic-clusters-big.html, and paper link, Formation of inflaton halos after inflation, https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.103.063525, 22-Mar-2021. "ABSTRACT The early Universe may have passed through an extended period of matter-dominated expansion following inflation and prior to the onset of radiation domination..."

My observation. Post-inflation model reported here 10^-24 s after BB. What is the rate of expanding space now? The inflaton field is collapsed and cosmic structure seems to be claimed. Inflaton halos 20 kg and 10^-20 m in radii. What about the cosmological constant for expanding space and H0? In this post-inflation model, tiny black holes could form.

Okay put it all out there now, warts and all for the cosmology department. Transparency in reporting on cosmology seems to be *emerging* :)---Rod
 

Catastrophe

"Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
I have other ideas on the BB ("egg timer") as some will know, but is it not the case that the closer we get to t=0, the more assumptions have to be made and the greater is the uncertainty?

This aspect is not my forte, so I am asking for clarification.

Cat :)
 
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Helio et al. Here is another report that parallels this article. Post-inflation cosmology :) Astrophysicists simulate microscopic clusters from the Big Bang, https://phys.org/news/2021-03-astrophysicists-simulate-microscopic-clusters-big.html, and paper link, Formation of inflaton halos after inflation, https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.103.063525, 22-Mar-2021. "ABSTRACT The early Universe may have passed through an extended period of matter-dominated expansion following inflation and prior to the onset of radiation domination..."
The earliest nano-nanoseconds are incredibly difficult, no doubt, for particle physicists. To propose a model that begins with the matter of the universe -- this isn't a small value -- and have it convert to energy seems very ad hoc. The computer simulations that result are probably interesting, but is there any lab evidence for pre-mass.?

My observation. Post-inflation model reported here 10^-24 s after BB. What is the rate of expanding space now?
I'm unclear on what you are implying. Do you expect them to be similar?

The inflation field is collapsed and cosmic structure seems to be claimed. Inflation halos 20 kg and 10^-20 m in radii.
The inflation model, added to the BBT, has been considered to be a bit ad hoc, but nothing like the above. It was introduced to explain why we see less cosmic structure [The Horizon Problem] than we actually observe since quantum action during the first instance of time would have caused a lot more anisotropy. It also solved the Flatness Problem.

What about the cosmological constant for expanding space and H0? In this post-inflation model, tiny black holes could form.
HO is simply a value derived from observations, beginning with Lemaitre's calculation from Slipher's redshift values.

In this post-inflation model, tiny black holes could form.
That is more likely than, say, the formation of pink elephants, but "where's the beef?". Is there evidence for this, and where is this going? I'm unclear where this fits in your view of BBT. Is it favorable to BBT, dis-favorable, or just something interesting?

Okay put it all out there now, warts and all for the cosmology department. Transparency in reporting on cosmology seems to be *emerging* :)---Rod
Are you suggesting that the prior "reporting on cosmology" was disingenuous?
 
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Nothing in Helio post #8 explains what happened from the Planck time and Planck length size for the beginning of the universe to the origin of the CMBR which this space.com report touches upon, going back to the first seconds, not 380,000 years after when the CMBR is said to form. For example, what is the rate of space expansion at 10^-24 s after BB in post-inflation universe or say even the 1 second mark? We already know Alan Guth uses 10^21 c or greater during the inflation epoch. This is long before the CMBR is said to form. Going back to the start as some reports are doing now is an approach that may need more plain language summary thus more transparency to the public. As inflation model added to BB model continues, we see inflation model expanding in many new directions and ideas and an interesting post-inflation universe appearing (because of the math and calculations). Post-inflation models are now being reported, especially on the NASA ADS Abstract service. Post-inflation universe, very different than when the CMBR is said to form in the BB model. The evolving universe continues in the post-inflation universe until the CMBR forms. The BB model seems good for the CMBR to present time, however before the CMBR forms is getting very interesting in cosmology. The horizon problem in BB model can only be solved now by inflation it seems otherwise some used VSL theory, Variable Speed of Light *in the beginning* to explain the horizon problem in nearly uniform CMBR observed today.
 
Nothing in Helio post #8 explains what happened from the Planck time and Planck length size for the beginning of the universe to the origin of the CMBR which this space.com report touches upon, going back to the first seconds, not 380,000 years after when the CMBR is said to form.
Right, I have no expertise of actual events during the first nano-nanoseconds, and I suspect none do. Until Faraday came along, there was no such thing as a magnetic field, no EM equations until Maxwell, no clarity for other galaxies until Hubble. The QM circumstances at just after t=0 may well require new phenomena given the incredible extremes in T, P, density, etc. Inflation (and DE no doubt) involves an understanding of what negative gravity might look like.

There have been more than two dozen models for DE, so I won't be surprised if more models will apply to the nano BB moments since at least labs can address a lot of the predictions made, unlike DE. Most will be mutually exclusive, of course. I doubt there is anything close to a consensus for one over another, especially the pre-matter concept. Time will tell. :)

For example, what is the rate of space expansion at 10^-24 s after BB in post-inflation universe...?
Slower than at the predicted rate at Inflation. Is the lack of a substantiated rate a problem for BBT?

We already know Alan Guth uses 10^21 c or greater during the inflation epoch. This is long before the CMBR is said to form.
It, as I've stated in the past, helps me to approach BBT from working from now backwards in time. The CMBR comes from shrinking our known universe from 2.7K enough to reach ~ 3000K, when conditions first allowed atoms to form, thus produce the photon outflow we see as the CMBR. This is, currently, as far back in time we can observe. But the math is, I assume, straightforward in shrinking the universe to a tiny size and calculating the time for that to happen (ie 380k years.) At some tiny point in time, known physics finds itself on the precipice between their equations and earlier events. The fact that they can get as close to t=0 as they do is something remarkable for physics, IMO.

Going back to the start as some reports are doing now is an approach that may need more plain language summary thus more transparency to the public.
Agreed. If ideas can't be explained with words, then the idea itself likely lacks real understanding in the first place.

Post-inflation universe, very different than when the CMBR is said to form in the BB model.
If it makes predictions that can be tested it would be exciting to see. The CMBR may be, however, what falsifies the model.

The evolving universe continues in the post-inflation universe until the CMBR forms. The BB model seems good for the CMBR to present time, however before the CMBR forms is getting very interesting in cosmology. The horizon problem in BB model can only be solved now by inflation it seems.
Yes. This isn't too surprising since the CMBR is the last thing we can see, so far. There are some neutrino telescopes that may change this. The BBT, it's worth noting, became mainstream when the CMBR was discovered, as predicted .
 
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Helio in post #10 falls back on the CMBR has the foundation for *BBT* model. Question, how did the CMBR form? What was there before the CMBR? Did the CMBR (what I call the cosmic fireball creator) just suddenly appear out of nothing?

The space.com report link to the 67 page report that is the basis for the article here, says clearly in the abstract "ABSTRACT It is commonly assumed that the energy density of the Universe was dominated by radiation between reheating after inflation and the onset of matter domination 54,000 years later. While the
abundance of light elements indicates that the Universe was radiation dominated during Big Bang
Nucleosynthesis (BBN), there is scant evidence that the Universe was radiation dominated prior to
BBN. It is therefore possible that the cosmological history was more complicated, with deviations
from the standard radiation domination during the earliest epochs..."

In the 67 page report I found 253x references to inflation and 21x references to post-inflation. When I ask about the various expansion rates that apparently are reworked, seems a difficult answer to show. The explanation for the CMBR goes back to George Gamow and Ralph Alpher. Their prediction was a temperature near 50-51 k (not 2.7 k) and because space expands and light travels at c, lumpy temperature differences would evolve in the background radiation as time goes by because space continues to get larger and larger (thus the need for inflation or VSL theory).

At least some of the discussion here and the 67 page report is moving in the direction of transparency in cosmology.
 
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Helio in post #10 falls back on the CMBR has the foundation for *BBT* model. Question, how did the CMBR form? What was there before the CMBR? Did the CMBR (what I call the cosmic fireball creator) just suddenly appear out of nothing?
. Agreed, but extrapolations are hardly a violation in science. To assume the CMBR is some sort of barrier repulsing a negative contraction (reversing time) would violate known physics. Inassume the real challenge comes in the first millisecond.


.”.., there is scant evidence that the Universe was radiation dominated prior to
BBN“.
There is no direct evidence, if we ignore CERN and other labs that argue favorably for the std. model. I think this is true.

“It is therefore possible that the cosmological history was more complicated, with deviations
from the standard radiation domination during the earliest epochs..."
That’s likely an understatement, especially in the first nanosecond. BBT, however, is abundant with many lines of independent objective evidence that seems to only get shaky in the first fraction of a nanoseconds. I read that the “wheels of the physic‘s wagon“ at close to t=0, which implies that the wheels are rolling fine(?) until that very early instant. There are likely, however, dozens and dozens of hypotheses to reach into the unknown early period.

The explanation for the CMBR goes back to George Gamow and Ralph Alpher. Their prediction was a temperature near 50-51 k (not 2.7 k) and because space expands and light travels at c, lumpy temperature differences would evolve in the background radiation as time goes by because space continues to get larger and larger (thus the need for inflation or VSL theory).
Yes, that was 1948, IIRC. Any idea what tripped them on a more accurate value?

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Helio, concerning the work of George Gamow and Ralph Alpher, that was covered at times in Scientific American reports I read over the years. Concerning the CMBR discovered in the 1960s, it was definitely not the original calculations of George Gamow and Ralph Alpher but the CMB was interpreted within the framework and *expanded* since :) Something I note in the 67 page paper of this space.com report.

My observation. 28 references to "expansion rate" showing how sensitive this is to cosmology and 5 references to "cosmological constant" in this paper. 253x references to inflation and 21x references to post-inflation. I find it interesting that the Abstract does not use the CMBR as evidence for radiation dominated early universe but abundance of light elements said to be created during BBN. So prior to BBN phase in the BB model, little or no evidence for radiation dominated early universe. The CMBR is not used to support this radiation dominated phase in the BB model but BBN calculations used for abundance of light elements. This seems like circular argument here. Some reports seem to suggest the CMBR is evidence for the radiation dominated early universe phase (high density, high temperature, small volume universe) but apparently this is not the case. This suggest to me the CMBR could be redshifted light from a very different wavelength originally, not infrared but perhaps the optical light :) FYI. The standard BB model fails to create a uniform CMBR or nearly so. That is why inflation is used now, and others pursued VSL theory.

FYI Helio. Do you have all the space expansion rate changes from Planck time to BBN and CMBR origin? My answer here is I do not have this data. I would also ask about the time interval from Planck time, Planck length, to inflation epoch, post-inflation universe, and the time of the BBN phase. I have just bits here like 10^-44 s, inflation epoch 10^-36 s to 10^-32 s, some reports on post-inflation universe using 10^-24 s, the abstract from the 67 page report uses 54,000 years later (after inflation) but this is well after the BBN phase and long before the origin of the CMBR.

Looking for transparency in all this :)
 
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I find it interesting that the Abstract does not use the CMBR as evidence for radiation dominated early universe but abundance of light elements said to be created during BBN.
That doesn't surprise me since it was much earlier that many other things took place prior to things cooling down to allow electrons to join protons to form the first atoms.

This Wiki page seems to present the mainstream (?) view of the BBT Epochs.

Regarding expansion rate changes, it shows that at about 1 sec (Neutrino decoupling) the universe may have been about 10 lyrs in radius. But between 10s and 1000s, BBN, it may have expanded to 300 lyrs radius. So much faster than today's rate.

So prior to BBN phase in the BB model, little or no evidence for radiation dominated early universe. The CMBR is not used to support this radiation dominated phase in the BB model but BBN calculations used for abundance of light elements. This seems like circular argument here. Some reports seem to suggest the CMBR is evidence for the radiation dominated early universe phase (high density, high temperature, small volume universe) but apparently this is not the case.
The CMBR temperature was only about 3000k, so much cooler than the average star's surface temperature. It would be the much earlier epochs of interest in addressing radiation dominance. It is hoped that neutrino telescopes might be able to get some information from that first second period, which would likely be able to give objective evidence for, and against, many hypotheses, no doubt.

This suggest to me the CMBR could be redshifted light from a very different wavelength originally, not infrared but perhaps the optical light :)
At the time of Recombination (CMBR), the physics supports a universe at a temperature of about 3000k, so very much an optical light event (yellowish-orange? :)), though the bulk would have been in the infrared. Peak wavelength is about 965 nm, so in the near IR portion.


FYI. The standard BB model fails to create a uniform CMBR or nearly so. That is why inflation is used now, and others pursued VSL theory.
Yes, but Inflation theory is part of BBT, which explains why there is such little anisotropy. It is a bit ad hoc, but nothing seems better in mainstream science. There is no alternative theory (BBT) that so beautifully explains the many observations found in the Big Bang Bullets list.

FYI Helio. Do you have all the space expansion rate changes from Planck time to BBN and CMBR origin? My answer here is I do not have this data.
I suspect the Wiki link above may be as good as anything. No doubt there are alternative models.

Looking for transparency in all this :)
I assume you mean clarity, as "transparency" is often used to finger point at others for intentionally keeping things cloudy to serve their own purpose, or is that your meaning? If so, it can happen even among scientists, but it's far more rare.
 
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Some transparency seems to be appearing now. More is needed on the space, expansion rate changes I feel reported to the public. So many expansion rate changes and then there is the cosmological constant issue too :) The inflation expansion rate exceeds 10^21 c (Alan Guth), so 93 billion light years covered very quickly :) Inflation theory has now opened post-inflation universe and some real differences can emerge in post-inflation calculations, well before BBN that is said to create the abundance of light elements in the universe today with a specific density and temperature used as well as expansion rate. Inflation features magnetic monopoles, something Alan Guth documented in 1984 Scientific American. Many exotic particles emerge like magnetic monopoles, and stars could form from them just like post-inflation universe where tiny black holes can form or even inflaton stars. Magnetic monopoles are as abundant as hydrogen and just as stable as the proton. Our observable universe according to Alan Guth in 1984 could be filled with stars made of magnetic monopoles, but inflation pushed them out of our bubble and into someone else's bubble :)

Clarity yes. Transparency may be needed too.
 
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The inflation rate only lasted for 10^-32 seconds, so I think this equates to the size of a grapefruit, IIRC.

The average rate seems to be a little more than 3c, but done quickly, so check my math.

This seems consistent with other reports I read but how did inflation end? Now we have eternal inflation too, just check out NASA ADS Abstract service and others. Once inflation starts, it never really ends :) One problem I see, just how many new, exotic particles are created during inflation, and now the post-inflation universe? I know about magnetic monopoles, now I see reference to inflatons and inflaton stars too :) Here is what I consider clarity and transparency. Without inflation, the standard BB model has a definite light-travel time problem explaining the smoothness of the CMBR that we see today as the universe continues to expand. This indicates the standard BB model has kinks in it and patches are needed.
 
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This seems consistent with other reports I read but how did inflation end? Now we have eternal inflation too, just check out NASA ADS Abstract service and others. Once inflation starts, it never really ends :)
Given the discovery of acceleration (ie DE), I would be surprised if there weren't some hypotheses like these.

One problem I see, just how many new, exotic particles are created during inflation, and now the post-inflation universe?
A bigger issue, IMO, is the imbalance between matter and anitmatter is no small matter. :)

Here is what I consider clarity and transparency. Without inflation, the standard BB model has a definite light-travel time problem explaining the smoothness of the CMBR that we see today as the universe continues to expand. This indicates the standard BB model has kinks in it and patches are needed.
Yep, that's correct. This is why I have mentioned that Inflation Theory is one that isn't hard to see as ad hoc. It was invented to be a patch to tackle the problem that emerged in BBT where we had so little anisotropy and that the universe seems to be so incredibly "flat". But the first nanoseconds requires super physics, and not your everyday kind of physics. So Inflation Theory, regardless of the reason it came about, is still a powerful addition, and it may be valid.
 
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Given the discovery of acceleration (ie DE), I would be surprised if there weren't some hypotheses like these.

A bigger issue, IMO, is the imbalance between matter and anitmatter is no small matter. :)

Yep, that's correct. This is why I have mentioned that Inflation Theory is one that isn't hard to see as ad hoc. It was invented to be a patch to tackle the problem that emerged in BBT where we had so little anisotropy and that the universe seems to be so incredibly "flat". But the first nanoseconds requires super physics, and not your everyday kind of physics. So Inflation Theory, regardless of the reason it came about, is still a powerful addition, and it may be valid.

So Helio, do you acknowledge then that the standard BB model has a light-travel-time problem when it comes to explaining the smoothness of the CMBR, something we should not see so smooth today? My answer is transparent. Yes it does and inflation opens the door to many other areas now including many new particles that are yet to be clearly confirmed as real including the apparent post-inflation universe(s) that are appearing in reports now. As reported in 1984, The inflationary universe, https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984SciAm.250e.116G/abstract, May 1984. "The theory of the inflationary universe is discussed. The problems facing the standard big-bang model are described, including the horizon problem, the smoothness problem, and the flatness problem..."

Much of the problem here is light-travel-time problem based upon Special Relativity as the universe expands and cools. The BB cosmology has a light-travel-time problem in it. Inflation is the current patch designed to fix the problem, thus holding the BB secure from being falsified perhaps.
 
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