The first Inter-Planetary Vehicle

[qso1]

dryson:<br />That day will be sad yet will usher in a new age from an old age. It will be exciting. It will still be sad to see the old bird just sitting as a display, her glory and spendor of yor gone but not forgotten.<br /><br />Me:<br />You said it...it will be sad to see shuttle go but as you mentioned, it will usher in a new age. It would be interesting to see some graphics of your design if possible. I'm more a visual person and tend to pick up on things faster by looking at visuals. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[dryson]

What happens when the main thrusters fire? what happens when RCS thrusters fire? What happens when something hits the ship on its side? <br /><br />That is what my main concern is. More so when the main engines fire. Going from a dead stop like that ? havent figured out the thrust density math yet, but visually I see the main engines firing and the modules twisting under the strain at the APAS mechanisms. <br /><br />I have envisoned the engine section and fuel storage areas being connected to the last module via square support structuring. An example can be seen by looking at the old T.V. antenneas. I think that this type of support system would route the vibrations from the engine firing off into space instead of down the whole length of the ship.<br /><br />

 

[dryson]

qso1 I will be working on the module designs this weekend and hopefully will have something to show you on monday.

 

[dryson]

Here is another idea that would go along with this design. Since the shuttle is being mothballed they will have to be a new type of "work bee" fitting type vehicle.<br /><br />Why not take the same concept of the Orion CM scale it down so that one to two workers are situated inside. <br /><br />The fore docking mechanism would have remotely controlled robotic arm docked to the hatch. The workers would enter and leave the vehicle through a side hatch or through the re-designed rear docking hatch.<br /><br />This vehicle called be called the Salamander and when not in use would be docked at one of the node docking hatches.

 

[holmec]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Why not take the same concept of the Orion CM scale it down so that one to two workers are situated inside.<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />At that level, what's the point? Dragon by SpaceX is pretty small but still fits 7 people. I wouldn't go any smaller since you can use the craft for multi purpose (ie people and cargo). But for individual missions you still can launch two people and scale down the fuel. Plus on Dragon the "trunk" or 'Service Module' could have an arm designed and attached if needed.<br /><br />But I question putting an arm on a capsule only to loose it. Why not have the arm work like ISS arm that can 'inch worm' its way around? That way you can transfer it to a tug for safe keeping and use and transfer it to a capsule if needed.<br /><br />Other wise you could have small robot craft with arms that can be controlled from ground or space ship. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[dryson]

If possible please provide me a link to your Dragon by SpaceX. The reason that I am paralleling these designs to the ORION CM and the ARES - I project is because ARES is the next generation of vehicles to venture into space. If the components of the ships are kept the same then the cost of modifying new component parts would be minimal at best.<br /><br />Here is the preliminary sketch of the design minus the engine and other features that will be added later on in the week.<br /><br />http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/dwighthuth/scan0002.jpg <br /><br />In between each node or module with be the Apas docking mechanism. Node #3 will be used for half of the modules as these nodes are self-sufficant and would require less components to produce power for the ship.

 

[Swampcat]

Try these:<br /><br />Wikipedia<br /><br />SpaceX<br /><br />ComSpaceWatch<br /><br />Google is your friend <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[ace5]

Just use Russian-based modules. They master the techniques for long term stays in space.<br />Make the necessary adjustments and mix them with hardware produced abroad.

 

[holmec]

here is a pic showing what the scale of Dragon is:<br /><br />Flickr pic <br /><br />dryson:<br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>If the components of the ships are kept the same then the cost of modifying new component parts would be minimal at best. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> <br /><br />Have you looked at Bigelow's modules? Standard modules to reduce cost. <br /><br />Bigelow Aerospace<br /><br />Wiki on Bigelow<br /><br />BA330 module <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

Interesting pic.<br /><br />Suggestion: Using an Orion capsule as a flight deck seems aukward and would require heavy modification. What if you used a "hab" module from a soyuz craft as a flight deck instead. No major mod of the hull. It has attachement in the back and docking in the front. It also haswindows and placements for antenae. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Nice work on the design graphics. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[dryson]

thanks qso1.<br /><br />I have designed a cupola and added it to several places on the ship. <br /><br />One class of this design will be a science/classroom study vessel. The classroom class will be used by students from Space.Camp to travel to space to conduct space flight manuevers, orbital studies of gravity and the Earth.<br /><br />The other type in this class will be used by adults to train for traveling to the Moon and Mars along with another type being used as a science vessel that will travel to places between the Moon and the Earth to conduct studies.

 

[qso1]

Any ideas on what it would cost? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[dryson]

I haven't figured the cost out yet. I want to design the basic ship first without any components being added. this would include the CM nodes or modules, fuel storage tank and engine. After I have designed the ship I then plan on going back and pricing the cost of the ship.

 

[qso1]

Sounds like a plan! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[dryson]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Sounds like a plan! <br />Posted by qso1</DIV></p><p>I am in the beginning stages of modeling the node 3 for the design. Once this has been achieved the other nodes shouldn't take as long to complete .</p><p>One question. How do the solar arrays on the Jules Verne work? They look to be bolted onto the frame itself. Do they self-deploy? How much electric power do they produce?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[Cygnus_X_1]

<p>Why are you using APAS.&nbsp; Orion is not using it, it is using LIDS.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Anyways, what is the point or mission of this vehicle&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dryson]

<p>Updated Propulsion system.</p><p>&nbsp;I was looking at the ISS component parts listing and found the perfect module to supply motion to the ship. The deleted Propulsion Module is perfect for this design. What would be needed though is the engines would need to be uprateed to propel a ship of this size to the Moon Mars or to an asteroid belt. What makes this module a perfect match is that it can&nbsp;fit-up up with the Unity Module via the docking hatch. With a little reworking Im sure this module can be made to fit-up with the other modules of the Pilyhas-1</p>

 

[Cygnus_X_1]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Updated Propulsion system.&nbsp;I was looking at the ISS component parts listing and found the perfect module to supply motion to the ship. The deleted Propulsion Module is perfect for this design. What would be needed though is the engines would need to be uprateed to propel a ship of this size to the Moon Mars or to an asteroid belt. What makes this module a perfect match is that it can&nbsp;fit-up up with the Unity Module via the docking hatch. With a little reworking Im sure this module can be made to fit-up with the other modules of the Pilyhas-1 <br /> Posted by dryson</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The hatches can't take the thrust of larger engines.&nbsp; Also the tanks of the propulsion module are too small to get the craft out of LEO&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dryson]

<p>Since I was looking at this propulsion package I noticed that the engines are somewhat small in comparison for the needs of this type of ship. If the module engines were replaced with the orbiter engines, The two sets housed on the dorsal aft part of the ship would these sets be sufficant to produce enough thrust to propell the ship out of it's high orbit? Would these engine sets also give the ship the momentum needed the get to Mars while not consuming large amounts of fuel which would increase the mass of the ship by having to add extra fuel modules along with providing enough thrust to get the ship and crew to Mars within a reasonable amount of time?</p>

 

[Cygnus_X_1]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Since I was looking at this propulsion package I noticed that the engines are somewhat small in comparison for the needs of this type of ship. If the module engines were replaced with the orbiter engines, The two sets housed on the dorsal aft part of the ship would these sets be sufficant to produce enough thrust to propell the ship out of it's high orbit? Would these engine sets also give the ship the momentum needed the get to Mars while not consuming large amounts of fuel which would increase the mass of the ship by having to add extra fuel modules along with providing enough thrust to get the ship and crew to Mars within a reasonable amount of time? <br /> Posted by dryson</DIV></p><p>look at the size of the Saturn V third stage in comparsion to the Apollo spacecraft.&nbsp; The Apollo spacecraft (CSM & LM) weighed around 100klbs.&nbsp; The Saturn 3rd stage with propellants weighed&nbsp; weighed twice as much.&nbsp; This was only to go to the moon.&nbsp; To Mars would take much more propellant </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

What is your estimate of your ships on orbit mass at Earth Orbit Departure (EOD)? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[dryson]

Since I was looking at this propulsion package I noticed that the engines are somewhat small in comparison for the needs of this type of ship. If the module engines were replaced with the orbiter engines, The two sets housed on the dorsal aft part of the ship would these sets be sufficant to produce enough thrust to propell the ship out of it's high orbit? Would these engine sets also give the ship the momentum needed the get to Mars while not consuming large amounts of fuel which would increase the mass of the ship by having to add extra fuel modules along with providing enough thrust to get the ship and crew to Mars within a reasonable amount of time?
Posted by dryson

look at the size of the Saturn V third stage in comparsion to the Apollo spacecraft. The Apollo spacecraft (CSM & LM) weighed around 100klbs. The Saturn 3rd stage with propellants weighed weighed twice as much. This was only to go to the moon. To Mars would take much more propellant

This design will not be launched as a whole unit into space, the idea behind it is too send the various ISS modules into space aboard a Constellation type vehicle. The modules would then dock at a portion of the shipyard, which is the same design as the ISS but without the extra science nodes and crew support nodes. A shipyard crew would then travel to the shipyard aboard a re-designed Mercury capsule from the ISS, dock and assemble the component modules of the ship. Once the last two modules, the fuel storage tanks and the engine suite had been delivered, the ship would be ready for it's crew and launch to Mars or whatever location it was heading to. Hopefully the shipyard would be somwhere at about a 1/4 of the distance from the ISS to the Moon.

ISO I am not sure of the particulars of the ship right now as the design is still in it's design phase. But once finalized I will give the basic numbers necessary for your equation.

The name of the project has also been changed it is now called the SOl Endeavour.