The Magellanic Clouds must be renamed, astronomers say

[Admin]

A coalition of over 50 astronomers is calling to rename the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds.

The Magellanic Clouds must be renamed, astronomers say : Read more

 

[rod]

Interesting report. I found at least 5 references to enslavement or slave. To be consistent with concerns in astronomy about slavery and past astronomical names that could be associated with past slavery, what about Sumerian astronomy names? Sargon conquered and took slaves. Babylonian astronomy names? The Code of Hammurabi shows these folks took slaves from the *four corners of the earth*. The Amarna tablets show some town leaders sold some of their folk into slavery to buy bread during times of famine. Egyptian Pharaohs periodically conquered towns in Canaan (Thutmose, Merneptah are examples) and took slaves too, including papyri showing they sent out solders to capture run away slaves.

Then we have Greek astronomy and their taking of slaves, Roman slaves, and Islam too. The Quran has 114 Surahs (114 chapters) with references to slaves and slave ownership. Perhaps there are a variety of astronomical names that would need renaming now using modern standards it would seem.

 

[NRSastronomy]

A coalition of over 50 astronomers is calling to rename the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds.

The Magellanic Clouds must be renamed, astronomers say : Read more

Copium and seethium is today’s special I see!

 

[Marc2001]

In the famous words of Shakespeare: "Much Ado About Nothing"

 

[wastelandbkr]

No one in these comments is here for science. They all got triggered and now they're here to complain that other people got triggered

 

[carlo.milana]

In this sad political world, when shall we stop being so ridiculous with the so-called cancel culture?
The Magellan clouds are there to stay forever as Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto planets!
Magellan, like the rest of us, was the son of Cain, not Abel! And you won't save yourself by cancelling the memory of mankind or your own ancestors. Let's have the courage to look at ourselves as their offspring!
Can't you think of something else better than changing the name of Magellan's clouds?

 

[Dortmund66]

I personally think people should be judged by the standards of their time. I honestly do not know what standards there were then. But I think we have to be careful judging figures of the past by our standards. That being said, I in no way at all support the slavery and killing of the past. I see it as completely wrong.

 

[Atlan0001]

I personally think people should be judged by the standards of their time. I honestly do not know what standards there were then. But I think we have to be careful judging figures of the past by our standards. That being said, I in no way at all support the slavery and killing of the past. I see it as completely wrong.

Nature is beautiful only when observed from a distance! Looked at closely, it's a slaughter pen, an eat or be eaten nature. Even vegetation ebbs and flows, over running and wiping out other vegetation. The tidal waves of energy and change. The only living solution is space frontiers, genesis and exodus . . . null unity (singularly zeroing) and unities (discreet quanta plural). There is nothing benign about evolution. But, given space, given room, there can be preservation of the old side by side with the new and benign (that is to say more benign, less malignant) continuances of the incompatible.

 

[Atlan0001]

Love how conservative people call everything they disagree with "woke"... They know they don't really have any kind of argument other than ideology or religion (which is two forms of the same things) so they put all their disarray in a word, "woke", thinking anyone cares or is offended and they they won a discussion they never even entered... Also love how haters in this thread totally occult the fact that Magellan didn't even discovered the clouds, which as mentioned several times in the article is actually the main reason why they should be renamed.... THEY feel offended in their beliefs, so they wine and rant.

Some people would like things to never change and think the way thngs are when they live should or will eternally remain the same, while society, like everything in the universe, keeps evolving, whether they like or not... Then time passes and these people are perceived as neandertal... that's the same peole who didn't want slavery or segragation in America to stop... But Lincoln, MLK or Mandela were woke I guess in these poeple's mind.

Mercury didn't discover Mercury, nor Venus, Venus, nor Mars, Mars, nor Jupiter, Jupiter, ....

 

[Messier83]

as a Filipino this is just so Irrelevant... Magellanic clouds are one of the closest massive objects on our Milky way and Magellan only recently discovered it for 500 years ago.. just keep the Magellanic name because these two galaxies reminds me of the Last Magellan's expedition Ship survived that left Philippines which was Trinidad and Victoria..
As same to Magellan's being the first one to Circle around the world these Two Galaxies Large and Small Magellanic clouds also Circling around our Milky way galaxy.. coincidence?

 

[Dortmund66]

Nature is beautiful only when observed from a distance! Looked at closely, it's a slaughter pen, an eat or be eaten nature. Even vegetation ebbs and flows, over running and wiping out other vegetation. The tidal waves of energy and change. The only living solution is space frontiers, genesis and exodus . . . null unity (singularly zeroing) and unities (discreet quanta plural). There is nothing benign about evolution. But, given space, given room, there can be preservation of the old side by side with the new and benign (that is to say more benign, less malignant) continuances of the incompatible.

All I wanted to say was to keep the old names. Not sure of your point but between the two points of zero in my existence, I only want to help others. Renaming small galaxies is irrelevant to that.

 

[billslugg]

I can't wait until they find out Amerigo Vespuci held slaves.

 

[Messier83]

I also found this a blantan

A coalition of over 50 astronomers is calling to rename the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds.

The Magellanic Clouds must be renamed, astronomers say : Read more

I found that Magellan dint even enslaved anything . he'd just beg Spanish king to make him prove the world is rounded...
He died in Philippines while the only one left that arrived back at spain is Victoria came to tell the tale..
Magellan is completely innocent and if he did something wrong then it was Smuggling thats why his voyages to going West (Pacific)are ignored by Portuguese king .
Without him we wouldn't know the world is rounded for another 200 years

 

[SRoth]

This reminds me of, if anybody here remembers the American car, the Chevy Nova. Although the anecdote was not true, the storyline went that the car sold poorly in Spanish-speaking countries because in Spanish, "Nova" ("no va") means "it doesn't go." Point being, not everybody sees things the same way.
I am definitely NOT woke, but if there are ways to avoid antagonizing (more) people, I'm all for it. Clearly this routine of naming things after people can be inflammatory. Why continue to do this? It's not like we don't have enough perfectly cromulent word choices. There are millions of words to choose from, in hundreds of languages. Today's hero is tomorrow's villain. We see it happening again and again. You can honor a person in other ways besides naming a damn cloud after them. Throw a nice luncheon. Give them a fancy framed certificate. Avoid these future moral dilemmas and choose a better path now. Until human beings can be considered perfect for all time in all times.

 

[Atlan0001]

As I've stated many times, I've enjoyed the study of histories, both natural (including physics) and otherwise, for seventy of my seventy-six years. The dodo bird went extinct because it was a dead end. Other extinctions have occurred not because of external causes but because of internal, a failing from within. Rome fell from an accumulation of rot (thus become a "Woke" entity) within.

Even as Rome was falling from a closed systemic Utopian rot entropy within (the end of the world, a world. the universe, a universe), another youth, and other youths, were rising to take its place. The constant circle back of history . . . the constant circle back of universes (the plurality of histories -- past and future histories -- and universes -- past and future universes).

 

[Gordon_W_Zipper]

I object to "Large" and "Small", as they obviously can offend the mass-gifted and those with dwarfism.
(sarcasm intended)

 

[Ferdinando Scala]

A coalition of over 50 astronomers is calling to rename the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds.

The Magellanic Clouds must be renamed, astronomers say : Read more

I honestly don't know where to start disagreeing. I feel that this kind of attitude, infantile in any other area of human knowledge or society, becomes utterly insufferable when speaking about science.

Humans are inherently good and evil, and they make good actions and bad actions. Humans we choose to remember, and in honor of which we dedicate streets, schools or stars, did something special among all the good and bad things they did in their lives. We remember them for that, not for their overall actions. We cannot honor only men or women that are perfect in any way, because they simply don't exist - and by the way, who's deciding what's perfect?

Furthermore, in my opinion, this kind of attitude toward people of the past shows a utter ignorance of the sense of history. The more we go in the past, the more is likely that what was acceptable at that time, is unacceptable today.

So what?

Our ancestors were semi-human monkeys, had limited intelligence and for sure they had nothing similar to an ethic system - not to mention OUR ethic system. Should we cancel Homo Neanderthalensis or primitive Homo Sapiens from the history just because he was not like us? Should we cancel the Altamura caves paintings because they were done by such subhuman individuals?

Magellan performed something special, even he didn't share our value system. He's worth to be honored and remembered.

And please, for Truth's sake, stop referring to minorities as majorities. A small group of 50 astronomers is not "astronomers". This is fake news and reality manipulation.

The manipulation of Truth is the opposite of science.

And you are writing for a science magazine, for Lord's sake.

 

[SRoth]

I honestly don't know where to start disagreeing. I feel that this kind of attitude, infantile in any other area of human knowledge or society, becomes utterly insufferable when speaking about science.

Humans are inherently good and evil, and they make good actions and bad actions. Humans we choose to remember, and in honor of which we dedicate streets, schools or stars, did something special among all the good and bad things they did in their lives. We remember them for that, not for their overall actions. We cannot honor only men or women that are perfect in any way, because they simply don't exist - and by the way, who's deciding what's perfect?

Furthermore, in my opinion, this kind of attitude toward people of the past shows a utter ignorance of the sense of history. The more we go in the past, the more is likely that what was acceptable at that time, is unacceptable today.

So what?

Our ancestors were semi-human monkeys, had limited intelligence and for sure they had nothing similar to an ethic system - not to mention OUR ethic system. Should we cancel Homo Neanderthalensis or primitive Homo Sapiens from the history just because he was not like us? Should we cancel the Altamura caves paintings because they were done by such subhuman individuals?

Magellan performed something special, even he didn't share our value system. He's worth to be honored and remembered.

And please, for Truth's sake, stop referring to minorities as majorities. A small group of 50 astronomers is not "astronomers". This is fake news and reality manipulation.

The manipulation of Truth is the opposite of science.

And you are writing for a science magazine, for Lord's sake.

Every society has an ethic. It might have differed from another concurrent society's ethic, and it might differ from your society's ethic now. We can't back-judge; we can only live now and decide what's "ethical" now, for our individual society. To each its own.
If you erase/cancel things, you never learn from past mistakes. Better to say that someone who was famous for doing something good, also had some traits (or deeds) that are no longer considered honorable, and learn from that.
Nevertheless, if (for example) an entire culture or nation has a problem with something, it's a problem. We know humans are imperfect, and often nefarious. Why can't we just avoid these problems from the get-go, and avoid using this naming system to honor people who may soon be proven unacceptable? This naming system is hurtful to some people. Just because it's not YOU, doesn't make it less hurtful. And even if it's a small number ("minority") of people who feel hurt/offended/marginalized, why risk it? There are better options!! For godssakes it's just a NAME! Pick something that doesn't offend people!!

 

[COLGeek]

This thread was closed because many could not address the science aspects of the article, vice political ranting. Our mission is science and space. Please keep that in mind when posting. Thank you.