The Moon is Toxic?

[scipt]

That's a blow. I hope not! Mind you the two 1st walkers are still alive. Dunno how much they 'inhaled' though.<br /><br />Article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6460089.stm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Various soils and minerals around earth are toxic.<br /><br />We will adapt.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[dreada5]

I agree.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The molten dust from the microwave treatment hardens into solid glass, which has given rise to the idea that robots could be sent ahead of human missions to "pave" landing pads and roads by firing microwaves at the lunar soil. <br /><br />Professor Taylor has come up with a concept for a wheeled vehicle, much like an ice-rink resurfacer, that could perform the task, and has developed a prototype microwave device that could be carried to the Moon. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" />

 

[JonClarke]

All mineral dust is hazardous, on Earth, Moon, Mars, wherever.<br /><br />So we keep the exposure levels to within acceptable limits by air filters and high tech devices such as dust pans, brooms, and vacuum cleaners.<br /><br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[R1]

is there a good chart on moon soil somewhere?<br /><br />there are still questions like is the dust smaller? more metallic?<br />could there be some strange virus in the water ice parts close to the polar light and shadow<br />'twilight' zone?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

There are element maps produced by the prospector mission. You should fine them on google.<br /><br />It shouldbe possible to map particle size variations with things like radar. I am not sure if this has been done for the whole moon though, nor how well it differentiates the finer sizes.<br /><br />These sort of questions are why we need to go back to the Moon.<br /><br />As to a virus in the ice, I woul d say it is extremely unlikely. The virus would have to get into the ice, and then remain viable over millions perhaps billions of years. It would then have to be sufficiently compatible to life on Earth to cause a disease. Virii have very precise biochemical behaviour that rarely crosses species boundaries, even more rarely class boundaries, and never that of phyla. We don't get tobacco moisaic virus, and tobacco plants don't catch colds.<br /><br />The composition of organic species in the ice will be of great interest to astrobiologists. So the first ice samples will be handled very carefully to avoid contamination and allow anaysis of the ices and the materials in it. This would been collection by sterile and ultraclean tools and storage in ultraclean sterile containers that are kept at cryogenic temperatures and then handling in ultraclean labs. This shoudl be able to identify any pathogens - should they exist, which, as I have said it astronomically unlikely.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[scipt]

I'm aware that many minerals are toxic, but the impact of this means that heavier engineering will have to go into the airlocks, more airfilters etc. It'd be much easier if the regolith was totally benign. You've seen how much effort goes into removing asbestos from buildings on earth. It's not an insurmountable problem, but one which is undesireable. I wonder if Martian soil has toxic issues for humans? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

There is no such thing as benign regolith. All mineral dust should be treated as extremely hazardous causing physical damage and being carcinogens. Lunar dust is no more or less hazardous than many terrestrial mineral powders of similar grainsize. We manage terrestrial dusts by filtering and house keeping, the same will be done on the Moon and Mars. <br /><br />Existing spacecraft ventilation systems and existing off the shelf air filters are more than good enough for this task. High tech damp cloths, dustpans and brooms, and vacuum cleaners will suffice for the rest.<br /><br />I can't stress this enough. this is a hazard we know how to deal with.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[dreada5]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>It shouldbe possible to map particle size variations with things like radar. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />How?

 

[docm]

It can be done for ice clouds and Saturn's rings (Cassini), so why not? Might take an impacter to kick some up though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[sphynx]

"could there be some strange virus in the water ice"<br /><br />Excuse friends, but is confirmed that NO ice in Moon EXISTS. <br /><br />From Argentina, a cordial greeting of:<br /><br />Sphynx <br /><br />http://www.planetary.org/news/2006/1018_New_Evidence_Challenges_Idea_of.html<br />

 

[j05h]

<i>> I can't stress this enough. this is a hazard we know how to deal with. </i><br /><br />Generally I agree with this. For the "sharp" dust on the Moon, they are talking about asbestosis-type health problems. Even a little bit of it over long durations can be harmful. Insurmountable? Hardly, but an issue regardless. It just means, to me, that any human missions to anywhere offplanet should be well worth it. This is also a strong argument for Lunar ISRU precursor missions. If there isn't extractable water in the polar craters it could affect the exploration strategy. If the 'Peak of Eternal Light' can become our "gas station" it's worth the effort, otherwise set up a darkside radio telescope and then on to Mars.<br /><br />The problem is largely that the particles aren't weathered. An airlock that included 3 chambers might do the trick. It would have an outer "dirty" lock, a wet lock below and a clean lock on the Habitat side. Tools are left in the dirty lock, everything comes into the Hab wet and clean. (this is from old sci-fi short, but good idea)<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Back scatter can tell you about surface roughness on a scale commensurate with the radar wavelength. The shorter the wavelength the finer the roughness cale resolved. That's my understanding anyway.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

There are lots of places we encounter unweathered mineral particles on Earth. Mines, quarries, metallurgical plants, volcanic zones, for example. So this is not a problem unique to the Moon, or Mars.<br /><br />Asbtestos is nasty stuff, but I don't see any evidence that lunar dusts are that bad. However even asbestos is a manageable problem. Even though asbestos isn't mined like it used to be, many mineral deposits contain traces of asbestiform fibres so extreme care has to be taken. I used to work in such a place. The management technique is to keep the airbone load to acceptable levels.<br /><br />It is worth noting that because of the risk of airborne particles to health and equipment current spacecraft have a very high rate of air exchange. For example the shuttle undergoes 8.5 air changes an hour and payload modules 6. Commerical filtration units will remove 99% of particles down to 1 micron in a single pass. With this combination of technology and simple housekeeping it is very hard to image how dust can become a risk (which what matters).<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>