The universe....What was there before it was created?

[kyle_baron]

<font color="yellow"><br />Those who claim that science has ANY theological basis or anything in common with theology, are very embarrassed & indeed given an impossible proof, when asked to demonstrate from all the massive amounts of data, a single equation which can imply/confirm a God. <br /></font><br /><br />LOL! Spoken like a true scientist-mathematician. Sounds like you want to put God in a box, and examine him! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[SpeedFreek]

Hi Kyle! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />It's true, a lot of things are black or white to me. But the origins of this universe are definitely one of the <i> grey </i> areas! I can indeed deal with a lot of greyness, when I have to.<br /><br />I find it particularly easy to deal with the greyness of never knowing where our reality came from. I doubt mankind will find the answers we seek during my lifetime, and I have no problem with that. I am pretty much resigned to the fact that I will not understand the nature of this universe, but it doesn't stop me trying to.<br /><br />I admit I am sometimes quite obtuse by nature and find it difficult to see what is written between the lines, and thus I did not, and still do not understand what point you were making about coincidences.<br /><br />And as for your comment to steve about putting god in a box and examining him, well of course! That is what science does - examines phenomena and tries to understand the mechanics behind them. Unfortunately for science, there is no actual evidence of godly phenomena to work with. And then of course, a theist would argue that the whole universe and everything in it is evidence of godly phenomena. But that is only a pure guess. Science wants to see if it can actually find out the true answer, to eradicate the guesswork.<br /><br />A thread about what existed before the universe is bound to become philosophical in nature. There is, by definition, no evidence in the universe of what might have been around before it existed. All we have is guesswork.<br /><br />Now I am quite happy to leave this all as a grey area, until someone comes along and implies that believing a god created the universe and that god has no beginning or end is more scientific a belief than one that the universe was created due to some unknown (but understandable if known) "natural" process, or that the universe itself has no beginning or end (and our present universe might be some small part of this process). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

Ok, fair enough-Truce (for now). <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><font color="yellow"><br />I admit I am sometimes quite obtuse by nature and find it difficult to see what is written between the lines</font><br /><br />Funny, I always read between the lines. Especially, when reading difficult Quantum Physics books. It makes it easier to understand. Basically what I do, is cross out unnecessary words, to get to the simplest, or most basic meaning of the sentence.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><br />And as for your comment to steve about putting god in a box and examining him, well of course! That is what science does - examines phenomena and tries to understand the mechanics behind them.</font><br /><br />Trying really hard to hold back laughter. I would have to say that you and Steve H, are probably the most unique (different) people in this forum. But I guess if we all thought the same, SDC would be a pretty boring place. Peace <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[SpeedFreek]

Heheh, when I read about quantum physics I have to read and re-read sentences over again to understand them, rather than simplify them. Hmmm maybe I should try it!<br /><br />Again, my obtuseness (if that's a word!) means that I fail to understand why you would want to laugh at my comment about what science does.<br /><br />But I will take your comment on my uniqueness as as compliment! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>

 

[theanswerlieswithin]

It's this simple... There is no logical explanation to any of these questions and never will be because if you really think about it, the universe and time and everything that we think exists, only exists in our minds, our imagination. the only thing that's real is the spirit of life and us. so in reality, everything as we know it was created by us and only exists in us and when the human spirit is gone and we no longer exist, then thats exactly what it will be...NOTHING!! because there will be nobody, no one, nothing.

 

[witgenestone]

What lies north of the north-pole?

 

[theanswerlieswithin]

i dont think you fully understand my perspective, you see... the answer to your question is what ever you want it to be, because the thought only exists in your mind. cant you see that

 

[witgenestone]

It wasn't particularly a reply to you, but to the thread title. This was the reply that Stephen Hawking gave to a similar question.

 

[theanswerlieswithin]

the universe that us humans have mentally created from imagination and curiosity does not have an end. it is infinite because as long as our spirit energy exists, then for every question that is answered, there will always be another question and another answer and so on because we will keep imagining. so in reality, all the questions about the big bang and time and matter where it came from?....who created it?... WE DID!

 

[oscar1]

I don't think so. The moment I opened my eyes there was the Sun during the day and the Moon during the night; I did not invent them! And not only was the Moon there when we opened our eyes, we also travelled there and brought some rocks back to prove it. True, we can classify things like God, the Big Bang, Black Holes, our perception of distances, etc. as mere phylosophy, and everything that is as anthropocentrism, but when it is as tangible as I am, it is as real as it can get. This includes the reality that we don't know much about it by far, but that it already was before we were.

 

[xerces]

look i think its pretty simple <br />1. we will more than likely never know for certainty what happened before the beginning of our universe<br />2. because there was probably nothing that we can comprehend so not until if we are saved christians get to heaven and talk 1 on 1 to the big G, we wont know<br />3. my support for this claim is very simple just by the question of a child asking where God came from or who created Him, well thats because even a child knows that something can't come from nothing so their simple minds are searching for where that something could have come from and every effect has a cause and so God is the something that everything came from something had to be around since always or there would just be nothing here, he is the ultimate cause for our effect

 

[xerces]

and to answer the whole no before the big band well there had to have been because where did that particle come from it can't have just conjured itself up with out help i mean the entire big bang theory makes no since basically an infinite explosion that came from a rouge particle that had the strength to react with itself (and according to our knowlage there has to be two particles for a reaction) and explode to an infinte level

 

[alokmohan]

SDC article seems to answer it.