The universe....What was there before it was created?

[newtonian]

rodrunner79- You have hit on the value of the Bible - it does tell us some of what went on before our universe was created, something science has difficulty doing.<br /><br />Note that the Bible does not contain the word "universe" or any derivational equivalent that would imply one one, as in the prefix "uni." <br /><br />You certainly cannot prove anything about origins by appealing ot the definition of a man-made word which limits the possible answers to the questions.<br /><br />Note in the first verse in the Bible which word is singular and which word is plural:<br /><br />(Genesis 1:1) . . .In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.<br /><br />Note: earth is singular, heavens is plural.<br /><br />See my earlier posts on many universes - there is simply no scientific basis to assume our universe is the only universe existing.<br /><br />And the Bible does definitely indicate plural heavens.<br /><br />The Bible is consistent with scientific discoveries concerning origins.<br /><br />For starters, are you aware of the many ways our universe is fine tuned for life, and the many evidences for intelligent design in our universe?

 

[vogon13]

There was a big sign:<br /><br />For sale or rent<br /><br />Will build to suit.<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[geneftw]

"Where did the universe (or all universes) come from"?<br />It astounds me that nobody knows that. My answer to that question, you will see, is quite obviously correct and totally comprehensive.<br />OK, here it is in terms anyone can understand:<br /><br />Before the first quantum particle (responsible for both energy and matter, there....uh, oh....I think my internet connection is going down....OH, NO!!!....<br />*blink*

 

[newtonian]

geneftw - Were you using a quantum computer???<br /><br />Seriously, those particles only appear to come from nothing. They are not actually violating the law of conservation of matter and energy.

 

[kaz321123]

I'd say that you read about the "Boson" particle...<br />It is also sometimes referred to as the "God" particle.<br />Supposing that God is not really some personified entity, if "he" were instead just a force, like a molecule or atom...<br /><br />The point is that scientists have isolated this Boson particle, and have discovered that there is no explanation for why it "duplicates" itself, or spawns more particles from itself. It is a mystery certainly.<br /><br /><br />To be honest, there really should be nothing. We should not be here on this planet...if there's such a thing as nothingness, that's what there should be instead of a universe.<br /><br />Trying to grasp how nothing can somehow form into anything is so impossible to comprehend, it literally gives me nausea just considering it.<br /><br />The only other explanation that I can think of for the universe having no beginning...<br /><br />Sometime a billion billion years from now there will be some terrible nuclear type accident...particles will explode from this accident in every sort of way, even in a temporal way...so that there must be "room" for these exploded particles to move to, so they will just create infinity backwards. When they slow down and actually stop, maybe that is what dark matter is referred to...particles left over from this futuristic disaster.<br /><br />Just brainstorming theories that are just pure wild guesses.<br /><br />

 

[newtonian]

kaz321123 - Thought provoking post - alas I will have to wait to respond as I wish to reserch further first, and need to do other things today.<br /><br />I intend to respond soon.

 

[eric2006]

Even us being able to conceive the idea of "nothing" is because we are "something". Even for the idea of nothing there has to be something to compare it with. So then that nothing actually becomes something of it's own right.

 

[newtonian]

Eric2006 - That post is something else!<br /><br />Seriously, I believe all things proceed according to cause and effect in harmony with the law of conservation of matter and energy.<br /><br />When it appears something is coming from nothing, it simply means something is coming from something else!<br /><br />That something else can be invisible - note, for example, dark energy and dark matter.<br /><br />Isaiah 40:22 shows that God is stretching out our universe like a fine gauze:<br /><br />(Isaiah 40:22) 22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze. . .<br /><br />It would be no surprise if God is using invisible forms of energy to accomplish this, since God is a spirit (John 4:24), and the Hebrew word for spirit, ruahh, means 'invisible active force' (or invisible energy) - the Greek word for spirit, pneuma, has the same definition.<br /><br />We could assume that just because we can't "see" something causing things like the more rapid rotation of outer portions of galaxies, that "nothing" is causing this. Or we can look for something else - something invisible - like, for example, dark matter.<br /><br />Likewise, since we cannot "see" something causing acceleration of expansion (or "stretching out") that nothing is causing this either. Or we can look for something invisible - like dark energy, even perhaps one of the forms of energy intrinsic to God's form.<br /><br />Concerning the origin of the universe, the origin of the stars is relevant. The Bible links the existence of stars to plural forms of God's energy in the same context as Isaiah 40:22:<br /><br />(Isaiah 40:26) . . .“Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.<br /><br />

 

[newtonian]

kaz321123 - Sorry, but I still need more time - but a quick question - which boson exactly?<br /><br />"Bosons: Particles that transmit forces between other subatomic particles. A boson that leaves one particle is absorbed by another." - "Awake!," 3/22/86, p. 25<br /><br />Are you referring to all bosons in general, or to one that transmits a specific force?<br /><br />Or the Higgs boson?

 

[eric2006]

Exactly. How is there ever a "nothing"? In a singularity where time is stopped would particles lose their spin or charge? Is there still matter or energy? If time is stopped would particles exist anymore? If not where did they go?

 

[jbenfield]

Interesting thread. <br /><br />One of the things that always confused the heck out of me was the descriptions given of the big bang. If time and space came out of the big bang, how can cosmologists talk about the 10-xxx seconds universe being a few centimeters in diameter or "the size of a grapefruit". Outside reference points are non-existant and from the inside, wouldn't time and space still be infinite? (since it is the entire universe, after all). It just seems like a bit of a bogus concept for there to be any meaningful measurements from "outside of space time" and I was wondering if I was just missing something? I get the whole "working backwards" thing. It just seems to me that the concept breaks down at some point and becomes meaningless. <br /><br />At least with cosmic expansion, you have some non-expanding references. I mean, if everything was expanding even down to the subatomic level, we'd never know it. Similarly, if time was uniformly compressing or expanding, we'd have no way of knowing it without an external reference point.

 

[doorma]

Um, the Buddhists say it was emptiness, but they don't answer what was before emptiness. I think this is the question that drives people to insanity--that and "you voted for Bush?" You keep thinking on it and I'll keep thinking on it. See you in the padded room.

 

[arc2]

Tapioca pudding. Zillions of cubic miles of Tapioca Pudding. Unending, unimaginable amounts of Tapioca pudding. Enough Tapioca pudding to choke God. <br /><br />Somewhere, in this immensely humongous non-universe of Tapioca pudding there was a non-place, an unstable non-region, where a critical mass was reached and the entire mess detonated. <br /><br />Thus creating everything that is not Tapioca pudding.<br /><br />Yes, before everything it was all Tapioca pudding. Traces of which can still be found today.<br /><br /> <br /><br />

 

[mrphyslaw35]

The real answer to what was before the universe is no matter how much you try to think up some logical explanation, you will never figure it out. I'm sure of this because im convinced the human mind reaches its limit of understanding at this point, in other words our great brains given to us by nature, god or whoever you believe gave it to us, is too inferior to grasp anything before or outside of our universe. The best way to describe us trying to answer this question is like a worm trying to figure out how an internal combustion engine works. One example I think about is how our brains are not designed to sense time. We have a vague definition for it and can measure it with numbers but we cant really sense it like we can sense being in a 3D environment. We are too stoopid to sense that we are in a 4 dimensional environment.

 

[neutron_star69]

I want all your opinions on my idea, I have heard it from a few people and I think it is possible. Imagin and atom, a very small particle. Well isnt it possible that our universe is like an atome compared to all that is out there? It would be my dream to travel to a different galexy and see what it would be like. Also to do that you might need a wormhole? anyone know if they really exist?

 

[neutron_star69]

also is there a way we could contact them through technology

 

[neutron_star69]

how do i post my own thread i dont know how to?

 

[neutron_star69]

nvm i got help already!

 

[student101]

With all due respect to the posters in this forum:<br />I don't believe that anyone can say that there was nothing before the Big Bang, because even nothing is something.<br />Our minds cannot comprehend nothing. <br />We think of a void, but what would this void have been devoid of?<br />Sadly, I doubt that we will ever figure out the true answer to this question.

 

[neutron_star69]

is what you are saying that there had to be space before the big bang because without the space it wouldnt be possible for the big bang to exist? I think i know what you mean

 

[neutron_star69]

is this what you are saying

 

[student101]

Yes. I'm saying that there had to be something before the Big Bang. <br />Where else could it have come from?

 

[neutron_star69]

hmmm possibly our universe was nothing but part of another universe was sucked into a black hole(if they exist) that is how our universe was created [just a thought]

 

[student101]

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[kmarinas86]

Quarks=Universes?<br /><br />http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/qbag.html<br /><br />Quarks:<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Bag Model of Quark Confinement<br />In dealing with the nature of quark confinement, one visualization is that of an elastic bag which allows the quarks to move freely around, as long as you don't try to pull them further apart. But if you try to pull a quark out, the bag stretches and resists. <br /> <br />The quarks of a proton are free to move within the proton volume If you try to pull one of the quarks out, the energy required is on the order of 1 GeV per fermi, like stretching an elastic bag. The energy required to produce a separation far exceeds the pair production energy of a quark-antiquark pair, so instead of pulling out an isolated quark, you produce mesons as the produced quark-antiquark pairs combine. <br /><br />The models of quark confinement help in understanding why we have not seen isolated quarks. If one of the constituent quarks of a particle is given enough energy, it can create a jet of mesons as the energy imparted to the quark is used to produce quark-antiquark pairs. <br /><br />Experiments show that the forces containing the quarks get weaker as the quarks get closer together, so that within the confines of a baryon or hadron, they are essentially free to move about. This condition is referred to as "asymptotic freedom".</font><br /><br />Universes????<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Bag Model of Universe Confinement<br />In dealing with the nature of universe confinement, one visualization is that of an elastic bag which allows the universes to move freely around, as long as you don't try to pull them further apart. But if you try to pull a universe out, the bag stretches and resists. <br /> <br />The universes of a proton are free to move within the proton volume If you try to pull one of the universes out, the ene</font>