The universe....What was there before it was created?

[killium]

One of two things : or we have to admit that the universe was always there, or it is possible to make something out of nothing, which explanation do you prefer ?<br /><br />Consider this: the positive infinity is linked to the negative inifinity. So there was so much of nothing that that nothingness reached the infinite void, so it became an infinite "full" (full of space and energy and matter...). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[neutron_star6]

We too are trying to figure out our own purpose but we cant. Our purpose for all we know could be right in front of us but we cant see it because we are looking to hard to find it.

 

[mooware]

The crashing membrane theory doesn't say there was nothing, before the creation of our universe. They are saying that our universe was created by the collision of two or more membranes. (universes)<br /><br />

 

[mooware]

<font color="yellow">"The more you think about it all - a creator of some sort makes understanding it much easier"</font><br /><br />No it doesn't. """If anything it's just as complex.. Where did he creator come from?<br /><br />

 

[mooware]

<font color="yellow">"We too are trying to figure out our own purpose but we cant. Our purpose for all we know could be right in front of us but we cant see it because we are looking to hard to find it."</font><br /><br />Why must there be a "purpose". Likely there is no purpose. We just simply exist.<br /><br />

 

[neutron_star6]

Im not saying that there is an exact purpose or even just one for us being here, but we are still trying to figure that out whether we do or not. We could be looking too hard like I said before, and in the long run there just isnt. Most people want to believe that there is one for us and search with no hope. Just like you said "We just simply exist." Just like everything else in the universe.

 

[mooware]

Likely we'll be looking for a long time. As for looking too hard. No, I don't think so. We'll eventually figure it out. Maybe not in our lifetime but eventually. I have a lot of faith in human inginuity.<br />

 

[neutron_star6]

See by looking to hard it means that we will just be searching blindly as we sometimes do. But, it also means that it will take a long time to figure it out. And once we do we just might be surprised by the outcome of what it is.

 

[lewcos]

"Why must there be a "purpose". Likely there is no purpose. We just simply exist"<br /><br />Everything has a purpose, so why wouldn't our existence?<br /><br />You get up for a purpose, you sleep for a purpose, you eat for a purpose, it rains for a purpose, snakes shed their skin for a purpose, animals kill for a purpose, Bush invaded Iraq for a purpose, ameoba's divide for a purpose, we go to work for a purpose.......<br /><br />Why would all the purposes stop at our existence??

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">it rains for a purpose</font><br /><br />No it doesn't it just rains because the air hits its saturation point.

 

[kmarinas86]

The purpose of things are their functions. Things that are not used serve no purpose. However, things that are used DO serve a purpose. What is used to serve the purpose of mankind? Energy. Who is the servant, mankind or energy? Energy. Who exists for a purpose? Mankind. What is the purpose of mankind? To make sure that energy serves a purpose. Something that serves a purpose is being used. At the core level, we percieve energy because we can sense it. Therefore, it is through sensing (using many senses individually: including seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling, empathizing, and philosophizing) that provides mankind a purpose and meaningful life. Life cannot be senseless, for if we are not sensing, then life would be meaningless. Life is meant to be meaningful. Life cannot exist without meaning, because life cannot live in a world where nothing is used. Things that are used serve a purpose for life and mankind. The purpose of mankind and the meaning of life is provided by energy.

 

[neutron_star6]

Its just a way of life but I never said that we do or do not have a purpose here. We may or we may not, but I do believe that we are looking in the wrong direction completely for it.

 

[lewcos]

"Arrogant"? Maybe "hopeful" would better fit there?

 

[neutron_star6]

No I would have to go with crazyeddies idea of arrogant. To think like he said that the universe is there to provide us with a purpose in a sense it is.

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">"The universe is indifferent to the ways of man". To think that the universe exists for our convenience, or to provide us with a "purpose", is arrogant, in my mind.</font><br /><br />The universe is marked neither by interest or indifference of man. The universe was not born because of man. Mankind is born because of energy. Without energy, mankind cannot be alive. A universe without energy is void of life.<br /><br />purpose: a function<br /><br />When you are very bored, you lack sufficent purposes (functions). We do things so we can live. The purpose of life is doing things, and doing anything requires energy.<br /><br />The universe is full of energy. There are countless forms of energy. Everything in the universe is formed of something. Electrons have energy and so do other sub-atomic particles.<br /><br />What is a "charge" and what does it have to do with energy?<br /><font color="yellow">(n.) That property of matter which allows the matter to interact via one of the fundamental forces (see interaction). The word "charge" is generally used to denote electrical charge, but it may also refer to gravitational charge (usually called mass), to weak charge, or to color charge. (v.) As a verb, this also denotes the building up of (typically electrical) charge.</font><br />www.mcm.edu/~christej/dictionary/dictC.html<br /><br />charge = energy.<br />We will now replace the word energy with "charge" because the word energy can mean many mystical things which don't make sense. Neutrons have no electrical charge, however it does have mass. Everything that has mass has a gravitational charge. Does there exist something without a charge? What exists that has no gravitational, electro-magnetic, weak, -or- color charge? That which does not exist cannot do anything, and therefore, cannot serve a purpose.

 

[neutron_star6]

Everything does require energy. Also the way you are describing purposes is just our regular way of living in the world. We eat, sleep, and other things along that nature. Maybe that just is our purpose just the things we regularly do. Or maybe it is something else. And you are right that the universe has neither interest or indifference of man, but crazyeddie is also right in saying the fact that the universe is just not there to provide us with a purpose.

 

[kmarinas86]

arrogant: having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride; "an arrogant official"; "arrogant claims"; "chesty as a peacock" <br />www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn<br /><br />Is the desire to live is warranted and justified? Or is this a unwarranted justice that mankind has over matter? If so, then all of life is arrogant for making a purpose out of energy, even the animals and plants that roam the planet. If we are arrogant towards energy and the universe, then we must be a "disease of the universe" for puttin energy at dis-ease. Energy, however, is not easy, it is work. Without energy, there would be no work, and therefore, no disease. We could conclude that we, the people of the world, are an "arrogant" disease of the universe, simply because we want to exist. It can be true both ways, depending on how you look at it. If we are made of energy, we can live, even forever, and still not be arrogant towards energy. How can we be arrogant to ourselves? Our purposes (functions) justify our own existence. One cannot live and be free of purposes (functions). Our bodies cease to stop functioning while we're alive, so why should we? We could also put this another way and say that existence does not have to be justified. What is the purpose of justifying existence? The nature of our existence is that we serve a function (a purpose). If we lack sufficient functions, then we are bored. If we still have a "positive charge", we can choose to justify our existence with good memories, which is in itself, a function (a purpose).

 

[neutron_star6]

You are correct. Depending on how you look at it, it could go either way. Energy is what everyone and everything in the known universe needs to do its function or purpose if you want to call it that. No matter what. Also what I am saying is that we are arrogant not because we choose to exist but because we look at the universe for our purpose and it doesnt have one for us.

 

[neutron_star6]

I do believe there was something that just made the universe start, that there was something there that started it. I do not believe the fact that all of a sudden the universe just came. Or maybe the universe was here already and was just and empty void, except for some particles that were wandering around then found each other and thats what started it.

 

[mooware]

<font color="yellow">"but I do believe that we are looking in the wrong direction completely for it"</font><br /><br />What direction should we be looking?<br /><br />

 

[diskadia]

and i again, i must ask: what came before whatever created it?

 

[mooware]

<font color="yellow">"<br />and i again, i must ask: what came before whatever created it?"</font><br /><br />And again we must say. We don't know for sure.

 

[lewcos]

"And again we must say. We don't know for sure."<br /><br />Not only do we not know for sure, we don't even have any idea, even if some people try to make you believe they think they know.<br /><br />The people that say there is absolutely no purpose are just as much in the dark as the people that say god controls everything.<br /><br />

 

[neutron_star6]

It could be possibly a really easy question and the answer is right there in front of us. We cannot see this answer we seek and look past it as if its just not there.

 

[diskadia]

I NEVER SAID THAT LAST POST I'VE BEEN HACKED!!!!