Titan. A cryonically cold 'Tropical World' oxymoron.

3488 · Oct 3, 2007

Very, very interesting article from Spaceflightnow.com. Despite Titan's very low temperatures, the atmosphere appears to follow many similar traits to Earth's, including Inter Tropical Convergence Zones. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

docm · Oct 3, 2007

The more things change, the more they stay the same.... -Alphonse Karr (1808-1890) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Oct 3, 2007

Hi docm, Very, very true. Just would not have expected it in this case. Titan is so alien in may respects & yet so familiar in others. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

brellis · Oct 3, 2007

All the little cryovolcanic critters might've scurried under the rocks when Huygens plopped down to the surface. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Ceresly-er, thanks for spotting that report, Andrew. Compared to the cratered Saturnian moons, Titan is alive. One of the observations cited by naysayers against the current presence of water on Mars is the lack of volatility in the atmosphere. Titan's air is movin' <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better. </div>

pyoko · Oct 10, 2007

Didn't know where to put this question, so it might as well be here. Titan has oceans or lakes of liquid. Does Titan experience monsterous tides? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -pyoko the duck It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. </div>

3488 · Oct 11, 2007

Hi pyoko, Titan does experience tides, although they tend to be more or less constant. Titan's orbit around Saturn is pretty circular with a very small eccentricity of 0.0288 with an average distance of 1,221,900 KM from Saturn, taking approx 15 days & 22 hours to complete each orbit. Titan's rotational period on its axis matches the orbit, therefore, Titan keeps the same face turned towards Saturn permanently. There were suggestions, pre Cassini & Huygens arrival, that lakes that may have formed in impact craters & / or cryocalderas, on the longitudes of Titan approx 90 degrees & 270 degrees & polar latitudes may be horseshoe shaped, due to Saturn's gravity, trying to pull the liquid further towards the centre of the Saturn facing hemisphere. However there is no evidence of that. I do not know what the lake levels are in relation to the average Titan elevations or if they are 'pulled up' by Saturn. I do understand though, that Saturn does cause the atmosphere of Titan to rise somewhat on the Saturn facing hemisphere. This may well effect winds & cause a low pressure area to form, but have heard nothing official. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Oct 11, 2007

Hi mithridates, Yes I just double checked myself, there is Hydrogen Cyanide in Titan's atmosphere. It is in very small quantities at low concentrations, but it is extremely dangerous. Titan Atmospheric composition in troposphere (ground level to 40 kilometres altitude). 98.4% Nitrogen 1.5% Methane. 0.1% Trace gases including Hydrogen Cyanide, Ethane, Argon, Carbon Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide, Propane, Helium & Cyanogen. You might be interested in this a diagram of the structure of the atmosphere of Titan. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 11, 2007

Nice atmpospheric diagram Andrew, thanx. I had not seen that before. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

h2ouniverse · Oct 11, 2007

Andrew, to me this is well in line with the general trend in universe: the colder the temperature, the more complex processes can be and the easier it is to store information. The outer solar system chemistry is so rich. Best regards.

3488 · Oct 11, 2007

Hi MeteorWayne, Yes I quite like that too. It is a post Huygens diagram, so I think it is reliable. At the tropoause it did get cold, I had heard before from Dr John Zarnecki, that when Huygens dropped through the tropopause the temperature of the atmosphere at that point dropped to -212 Celsius / 61 Kelvin, the coldest, direct sampling insitu of any atmosphere by manmade instruments. We think of the surface of Titan at a temperature of -180 C / 93 K being cold enough, but is positively 'tropical' as compared to 40 KM above the landing site. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Oct 11, 2007

Hi Joel, You would have thought the colder, the less reactions would happen. But not so. Titan is a real chemical factory, but I suspect the very low temperatures there 'preserve' the chemical information. It is not just Titan. The Uranus moons Miranda, Ariel, Titania & Oberon display evidence of varied & extensive geological activity in the past (I suspect Ariel may still be active, despite -215 C / 58 K daytime surface temps ) & Triton, the second coldest major body in our solar system (after Eris), IS active. Also Pluto's Charon is now suspected of Cryovolcanism. Very low temperatures do not appear to be a barrier to activity. Amazing stuff. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

h2ouniverse · Oct 11, 2007

Indeed. The variety of surfaces in the KB is so surprising. But is it such a surprise? The number of different phases increase at cold temperatures, as many chemical species have their triple point quite cold. No longer just pure H2O at play. But H2O+NH3. Then N2. Then CH4. CO2. C2H6. how many others? How many combinations? How many "cycles" (akin to the water cycle) are we going to discover? And that is without taking into account the multiple phases of solid water. So yes, less energy is available for transitions. But also, less energy is needed to go from a stable configuration to another one. In the end you can have metabolism anyway.

JonClarke · Oct 11, 2007

It will just be very slow <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

h2ouniverse · Oct 11, 2007

I wonder... Very slow for the kind of chemical transformations we are accustomed to, yes. But are they needed to go from one information-rich configuration to another, in very cold conditions?

pyoko · Oct 11, 2007

Andrew Brown, thanks. So does this mean that you would weigh more on one side of Titan than on the other? Measurably more. Since the atmosphere is being pulled on one side. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -pyoko the duck It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. </div>

3488 · Oct 11, 2007

Hi pyoko, Apparently a pretty big 1% link here, also the lakes could be displaced at least 100 metres. I think really more stuff will become apparent as the Cassini mission progresses. I wonder if this effects Cryovolcanism, faulting, etc on Titan & the appearance of the Saturn facing & anti Saturn hemispheres on Titan & perhaps provide clues as to when Titan became tidally locked??? This is producing more questions than answers. Edited, relinked article as original link did not work properly & content was disjointed Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

pyoko · Oct 11, 2007

I have never quite understood 'tidally locked' with planets remaining one-sided towards their gravitational centers. It must be a process of a very LONG stability. ie. Slow wobble. edit: I cannot understand most of that link. For some reason it is distorted (that's not why I don't understand it). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -pyoko the duck It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. </div>

3488 · Oct 12, 2007

Hi pyoko, I have relinked that article for you. Should work properly now. How's this? Weather forecast for equatorial Titan. Morning Methane drizzle with temperature at dawn of -183 Celsius / 90 Kekvin, with drizzle stopping around noon & a dry afternoon with a high of -179 C / 94 K. During the night, methane drizzle will move back in & temperatures will fall to -183 C / 90 K by dawn. Outlook for the foreseeable future, No Change. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

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