Titan may be as dry as a bone

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Saturn's moon Titan is as dry as a bone over most of its surface, suggest new infrared images from Earth.<br /><br />The work supports similar observations from the Cassini spacecraft, in orbit around the Ringed Planet. And it suggests previous radar studies from the ground - which hinted the giant moon was covered in liquid methane seas - were actually detecting signs of liquid that had long since vanished.<br /><br />NASA's twin Voyager spacecraft discovered in 1980 and 1981 that methane formed a relatively large component of Titan's thick atmosphere. That led to speculation that the gas was being constantly replenished from liquid methane seas, since ultraviolet radiation is thought to destroy the gas in 10 million years - a small fraction of Titan's 4.5 billion-year history.<br /><br />Radar bounced off Titan using the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico in 2003 strengthened this view. In 12 of the 16 sites surveyed, the surfaces appeared very smooth – on the scale of 13-centimetre radiowaves – with reflective properties that indicated those areas were covered by liquid. <br /><br />Reflecting on findings<br />The Cassini spacecraft has also observed intriguing liquid-related features. It has detected dark, river-like channels since it neared the moon in 2004. And the Huygens probe, which was dropped down to the moon’s surface, sent back detailed photos of channels near its landing site. <br /><br />But Cassini's visible and infrared cameras have failed to find the reflections expected from surface liquid. These instruments measure wavelengths of light ranging from about 0.25 to 5 microns (or millionths of a metre) long. <br /><br />Now, astronomers observing 2.1-micron-long infrared light at the Keck Observatory in Hawaii have reported similar findings. “[Before Cassini] we expected to see a large amount of liquid on the surface - perhaps 100 metres deep on average," says lead author Robert West, a planetary scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[thechemist]

I would not worry. When Huygens lands, we 'll find the truth <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

FYI: Huygens landed quite some time ago. It did not return any pictures of liquid water, but there was evidence of fluvial erosion and moisture of some kind (probably methane) in the soil.<br /><br />Personally, my money now is not on oceans of liquid methane but big methane geysers that periodically flood portions of Titan's surface. I suspect the "lake" Cassini spotted via radar may actually be a sort of caldera, a resevoir of this stuff erupted out from the interior of Titan. But it's speculative; it'll take time to find the truth.<br /><br />BTW, I always find the phrase "dry as a bone" amusing. Bones are very wet indeed. It takes a long time for them to dry out completely. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[thechemist]

Calli, you better support your wild assertions that Huygens has landed with some valid and well documented links. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

You're joking, right? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm<br />http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/index.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[thechemist]

Come on, NASA and ESA are well known for their distortion of truth, am I expected to believe those laymen-manipulating organizations ?? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br />Ok, ok, I will stop !! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Were not the copious amounts of smileys in this thread enough as a hint ? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[Philotas]

The global oceans was proven to be wrong, although it doesn`t have to be completely dry: NASA's Cassini Reveals Lake-Like Feature on Titan <br /><br />I suggest that liquids come and go like in desserts here on Earth. Now it`s summer in the southern-hemisphere and lots of cloud activity wich could hint that it rains there. What`s weird though is that it has been seen very few clouds at the more middern latitudes so far, where there also are summer, hence it didn`t come as a too big surprise that it was dry there.<br /><br />But dry as a bone is wrong since one of Huygens` instruments(that spike thingy) told us that the surface of Titan had the same consistency as clay and appeared wet, just like it had been liquids there for not too long ago.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[cyrostir]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Now it`s summer in the southern-hemisphere and lots of cloud activity wich could hint that it rains there. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />is it really possible to "rain" in such cold temperatures?

 

[Philotas]

For methane it is, which was what I meant. <br />If you have another word for "methane falling from the sky" then please show me it. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[robnissen]

Yes, it could rain methane, and/or ethane, depending on what exactly the local temperature is.

 

[chew_on_this]

Here we go again...

 

[chew_on_this]

<font color="yellow">It's a frozen, hostile, waste at about Minus 183 C. Cryonically cold like the rest of the Jovian moons(except Io).</font><br /><br />Bulloney... Huygens landed in what amounts to methane mud. This is a FACT. At least what I contribute is based on fact, not an agenda.

 

[Philotas]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>No lake like features and the article out of NewScientist and the link to Nature was clear. No evidence, repeatedly of ANY liquids on the Titanian surface. Not from Cassini, nor from earth obsrvations with imaging.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Once again: http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn7599<br /><br />And those recent observations of Titan with Keck, wich is reason for that this article was written; I highly doubt that the Keck telescopes could manage to resolve this feature, looking at earlier images of Titan by Hubble. <br /><br />Quoting from NASA:<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Cassini has not yet been in a favorable position for using its cameras to check for glints from possible surface liquids in the south polar region. </font><br />(as of 28.06.05, no new Titan Encounters since that)<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

I'll assume Huygens had no way to gauge humidity during its descent to the surface of Titan?<br /><br />The surface might possibly be "dry as a bone", but what about all those clouds? Water evaporates and forms clouds on earth. There are sulfuric acid clouds on Venus. Can "clouds" by their nature be devoid of liquid? I honestly don't know.<br /><br />But as Calli said, there is evidence that at least at one time, SOMETHING liquid was flowing on Titan's surface. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[geos]

A hostile waste that should have lost ALL of it's thick atmosphere BILLIONS of years ago.

 

[geos]

Titan sticks out like a sore thumb. But since no one wants to take a hard look at the nonsensical "planetary nebula" theory this moon will be completely ignored.

 

[telfrow]

<img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[geos]

You got anything to say other than "how dare you say that"<br />Yes they are professionals.<br />They don't have to make sense - they are getting paid and that is all that matters.

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">You got anything to say other than "how dare you say that" </font><br /><br />I didn't say that, Geos. I used the "roll eyes" icon. You know why. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[Philotas]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>That's not confirmed, nor did Huygens have the means to analyze it either. Nor is there known to be 'wet dirt 'on Titan. The problem is that too many try to characterize (or should it be terrestrialize?) the Jovian moons as earth-like when they are not & cannot be. They are as remote, cold and alien a site as can be imaginable, in fact. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /><br /><font color="yellow">When the probe landed, it was not with a thud, or a splash, but a 'splat'. It landed in Titanian 'mud'. <br /><br />"I think the biggest surprise is that we survived landing and that we lasted so long," said DISR team member Charles See. "There wasn't even a glitch at impact. That landing was a lot friendlier than we anticipated."</font><br /><br />Source: http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEM5YW71Y3E_0.html<br /><br />Titan COULD be wet, but it turnes out to not be more wet than muddy.<br /><br />And Titan is not Jovian. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[tom_hobbes]

Perhaps he meant jovial. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#339966"> I wish I could remember<br /> But my selective memory<br /> Won't let me</font><font size="2" color="#99cc00"> </font><font size="3" color="#339966"><font size="2">- </font></font><font size="1" color="#339966">Mark Oliver Everett</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[chew_on_this]

<font color="yellow"> That's not confirmed, nor did Huygens have the means to analyze it either.</font><br /><br />Apparently NASA and ESA are well enough assured to state it. I'll take there view on it over your "pig-headed" opinion any day.

 

[chew_on_this]

Here we go again....

 

[chew_on_this]

If all you have as an arguement is the semantics of the use of the word mud, I suggest you broaden your mind a little.