To Huygens Image Critics: Put Up or Shut Up

[kmarinas86]

Just as long as you don't declare this mission a failure. If some of the mission goals were failed, then I wouldn't call this mission a total success. Nonetheless, we have realized two of our goals which is landing a probe on Titan and taking pictures as planned.<br /><br />If there is much more to be learned about Titan, then we could have a rover land on Titan and take high resolution pictures. But remember, the first Viking probe to land on Mars wasn't a rover with wheels. And we are not looking primariliy for water on Titan (as we are on Mars), so there is less emphasis on knowing the small carved details in rocks.

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>okay...so far I follow....but like how much bigger would the wing have to be? Also, landing problems? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I don't want to draw this thread too far off-topic, but there's a great write-up of the scenario at the X-Plane website. X-Plane is a commercial flight simulator that you can tweak in many ways. You can even simulate Martian conditions, and design your own Mars airplane. The author went and did it, and the experience was....interesting. Stopping was indeed a major problem. He finally went with a 10,000 ft runway with arresting wires.<br /><br />X-Plane: The Martian Chronicles <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[slayera]

I feel I am hijacking this thread, but here goes. IIRC the wing would have to near double in size and I don't have the math. But the plane would look something like the U2 spyplane and would have to fly low to the ground. Turning would be slower also for the same reasons stated by the last poster, less pressure. <br />As for landing, two reasons, stopping the mass and bouncing the mass(or hard landings/skip off the the runway). It will take 3 times longer to stop and bounce 3 times higher than here on Earth or something like that.<br /><br />Here I got lucky and found this again, very interesting. <br />http://www.x-plane.com/mars.html<br /><br />

 

[haywood]

grooble...<br /><br />Now there's a space enthusiast for you...<br /><br />

 

[claywoman]

Thank you guys for this information. I can now visualize why flying a plane on Mars is out of the question. to a layman, realizing that atmosphere and gravity play a part in aviation is a given but you don't realize just the headaches to do so!!! So if we highjacked the thread, I'm so sorry...but with this information I understand a bit better...

 

[slayera]

LOL, you must have posted about the same time I did.

 

[darrrius]

Sorry to continue off thread... but was just thinking about the mars plane thing. Wouldnt the best type of aircraft for mars be something simlar to a Harrier JumpJet? Thought it might solve the problems of Take off and Landing?.... I dont really know if it would work...

 

[becarlson]

I am really impressed by this Huygens lander, but was initially disappointed in the low resolution photos returned. After months of looking at the beautiful photos the two Mars rovers have returned, I guess I have become spoiled. Now I realize there is a limited window that the probe can use for transmission of data, and so compromises must be made, but I was expecting more.<br /><br />Also, I was really disappointed that the mission designers decided to power the Huygens by battery and not via an RTG. If it takes seven years to get the craft there doesn't it make sense to have it "live" on the service for longer than a couple hours?

 

[bobvanx]

>>doesn't it make sense<br /><br />It really depends on what your goals are. If we had known for sure that there was a surface to land on, and knew that we'd want to sample ice rocks and tarry or fluid hydrocarbons, then perhaps.<br /><br />As it was, this probe was specifically designed to help us understand the atmosphere of Titan. That was its primary mission. The probe was optimized to acquire data during that time. You can think of the surface science as the "extended mission."<br /><br />MER had a primary mission of 90 sols, and at the end of that, they knew more about what they wanted to do. Now, deep into the extended mission on Mars, they can't add any instruments if it turns out something else interesting could be accomplished. For example, they don't have a way to bake rocks to release volatiles for sampling. This wasn't part of the data asked for in the first place, so it didn't get designed and built and paid for.<br /><br />Huygens is an atmospheric probe. It had to do all its science and data transmission while it dangled from a parachute. It was highly optimized, in terms of capability, capacity, data delivery, weight and power, to do this job in the best possible way.<br /><br />The surface science, no matter how fascinating it is to us, is a bonus.

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"...if we highjacked the thread, I'm so sorry..." -- claywoman</font><br /><br />Well, if you can't beat them, join them. Here are a couple links to Mars planes proposed for Mars exploration. If you do an internet search on "Mars plane", you'll get a lot more. Of course these are unmanned, but once humans are a presence on Mars, who knows what modes of transportation will be used?<br /><br />http://www.robotbooks.com/Mars-plane.htm<br />http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/k-4/home/F_StopMars_student.html<br /><br />I didn't really expect to hear from anyone with a more astounding panorama than that taken by Huygens -- at whatever resolution.<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"...doesn't it make sense to have it "live" on the service for longer than a couple hours?" -- BeCarlson</font><br /><br />Not if no one is listening. As it is, Huygens was still alive when Cassini dropped below the horizon and stopped receiving data. Some signal was recieved by Earth-based antennas but no data, other than the signal itsself. That could be used for doppler information and to know how long Huygens lived, but that's about all.<br /><br />More power would have allowed more data to be sent, and possibly alowed data to be sent directly to Earth (I don't know). If data could be sent directly to Earth, then a longer life span for Huygens would make sense. But as with all space probes, the line has to be drawn somewhere based on cost, and size constraints. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[yg1968]

I really liked the colour picture that was taken once the probe had landed. I wish the probe could have rotated on itself and taken more pictures of the Titan horizon. I imagine that the spacecraft had to be built to enable it to survive the descent and that this limited the probe's moving possibilities after landing. I hope that they will colourize more of the pictures. Details are hard to see in black and white.

 

[grooble]

^Arobie

 

[najab]

><i>...when a methane powered airbreathing aircraft would be far superior?</i><p>When we get aircraft that fly themselves absent any ground aid or GPS assistance, without any terrain maps, <b>then</b> we could consider an aeroplane on Titan.</p>

 

[arobie]

<font color="yellow">who is the idiot that wants to put a rover on titan... when a methane powered airbreathing aircraft would be far superior? -orrery<br /><br />^Arobie -grooble</font><br /><br />Excuse me? Where did say that I want to put a rover on Titan? You said you could probably build a better probe than Huygens with things from your house. I responded by listing what your probe would have to withstand. No where did I say I a rover was best or that I want to put a rover on Titan.<br /><br />BTW: I got a good laugh out of your:<br /><br /><i>I don't have a detailed plan right now, but i do have a coca-cola bottle and a few computer components.</i><br /><br />That was good. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[silylene old]

<font color="yellow">who is the idiot that wants to put a rover on titan... when a methane powered airbreathing aircraft would be far superior? </font><br /><br />At least this idiot knew that a "methane powered airbreathing aircraft" in the absence of an oxidizing atmosphere would be about as useful as a one legged man at an arse kicking contest.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>