Vast stores of water ice found on Mars

[JonClarke]

MARSIS radar results reported in Science.<br /><br />http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMSWJQ08ZE_index_0.html <br /><br />The amount of water trapped in frozen layers over Mars' south polar region is equivalent to a liquid layer about 11 metres deep covering the planet.<br /> <br />This new estimate comes from mapping the thickness of the dusty ice by the Mars Express radar instrument that has made more than 300 virtual slices through layered deposits covering the pole. The radar sees through icy layers to the lower boundary, which in places is as deep as 3.7 kilometres below the surface. <br /><br />"The south polar layered deposits of Mars cover an area as wide as a big portion of Europe. The amount of water they contain has been estimated before, but never with the level of confidence this radar makes possible," said Dr Jeffrey Plaut of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena (California), co-Principal Investigator for the radar and lead author of the study. <br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I wonder if this is like the "ocean" discovered in the earth's crust that would look like rock to you and I (and you're a geologist)<br /><br />Still, if it's there, it does give some hope to being able to use it as a resource, when we get there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Is it possible to get the estimate of the water in cubic kilometers? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[docm]

Boris1961;<br /><br />Mars surface area = 144,798,465 sq/km<br /><br />Melted depth = 11 m = 0.011 km<br /><br />Area x Depth = Volume<br /><br />144,798,465 x 0.011 = 1,592,783.115 cu/km <br /><br />Not a trifle by any means. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

To sum it up, the news from mars gets better all the time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[bdewoody]

Could someone translate Borman's question? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>

 

[docm]

Essentially; <br /><br /><font color="yellow">if the Martian poles rotated to the equator and the ice melted would the atmospheric water vapor levels combined with the ambient atmospheric CO2 cause enough of a greenhouse effect to create a warmer environment?</font><br /><br />I say unlikely. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"I wonder if this is like the "ocean" discovered in the earth's crust <br />that would look like rock..."</font><br /><br />I read this as being an ice cap lying on top of the rock surface rather than <br />a subsurface deposit of ice. So I would expect the only rocky material to be <br />dust, ejecta fragments, and the occasional meteorite.<br /><br />Also from the article:<br /><b><i>"...the strength of the echo that the radar receives from the rocky <br />surface underneath the layered deposits suggests the composition of the <br />layered deposits is at least 90 percent frozen water."</i></b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bdewoody]

For years I have read that the lack of water/water ice was the big stumbling block to permanent bases on the moon and Mars. Now that we are pretty much sure that both have sufficient quantities to support a colony I wonder what the next big show stopper will be? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

this post probably belongs in this thread. I stand corrected!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi all.<br /><br />This is one hell of a fascinating find (although suspected).<br /><br />Anyone hazard a guess as to how the Martian south polar icecap became like this???<br /><br />I will be following this thread closely & thank you for starting it Jon Clarke.<br /><br />MeteorWayne. You were certainly not wrong in the first place. The two are very much related<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"this post probably belongs in this thread."</font><br /><br />The image in that post was derived from two images released by JPL. The upper part can be seen here while the lower part is here as well as some other images. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

This deposit is 90% pure water ice, based on physical properties. It comprises the thick layered terrain at the poles which were first imaged by Mariner 9.<br /><br />How it cost there, well your guess is as good as mine. The south polar region on mars is high altitude, so frozen lakes or oceans are unlikely. Maybe alternating snow and dust deposits, perhaps buried caps.<br /><br />What is exciting is that there is a similar deposit at the north pole of Mars which has yet to be imaged by Marsis!<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[dragon04]

I think the most exciting thing is that Mars is indeed a haven and "bail out" destination if Man needs to get off this rock.<br /><br />Plenty of available water to provide H. Sapiens a place to go if we have to.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

This has huge implications for so many Mars issues.<br /><br />The global volatile inventory has just grown enormously, with major impact on our understanding of planetary evolution.<br /><br />The layereddeposits will be great places to record the history of Mars and reserve evidemce of life - if there was any. They must be high priority areas for rover and sample return missions.<br /><br />Such large deposits of relative pure water may transform Mars mission logistics and make these areas prime targets for manned missions.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

I just wonder if life, which is thought almost universally to require water, might exists in or near this massive water repository. Considering microbes have been found in the most unlikely places in the Antarctic. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The radar study did find one area that had an excellent reflector consistent with liquid water. They provisionally ruled it out because of the low temperature, but acknowledged that locally elevated heat flow or unusal composition (presumably brines) could allow liquid water to exist.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Just a matter of time. I think liquid water will probably eventually be confirmed, if not by current probes, perhaps a future one. Too many indicators are leading to it. The question then becomes, is it conducive to supporting microbiological life forms? Its always possible water found on mars might be poisonous to most living things. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Well, since terrestrial organisms can survive extremely oxidisng to extremely reducing conditions, salinities from zero to more than ten times sea water pHs from 10 to -2, and temperatures from -50 to +130, provided there is liquid water, if we find permanant water then the chances of find life must go up.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

You bet. Thats the positive thing about microbiological life. They are quite hardy indeed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[exoscientist]

Jon, did they find this subsurface area with the reflectivity of liquid water coincide with the cryptic region found to have anomalously low temperatures:<br /><br />Decoding Mars’s Cryptic Region<br />19 October 2006<br />http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMMT0O7BTE_0.html<br /><br />Seasonal Jets Darken the Surface of Mars.<br />August 16th, 2006<br />http://www.universetoday.com/2006/08/16/seasonal-jets-darken-the-surface-of-mars/<br /><br /><br /> Bob Clark <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I don't have the paper here, it's at work. The high relectivity zone was not at the surface, but deep in the layed material. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[search]

Mars Express and the story of water on Mars<br /> <br />16 October 2006<br /><br />LINK

 

[search]

Mars Express orbiter instruments<br />LINK

 

[exoscientist]

Yes, I know the area is underground, but I have a theory about the origin of the unusual temperatures in the cryptic region.<br /><br /> Bob Clark <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>