Ways to get the next gen into space travel?

[rocketman5000]

I think you hit on something big, I flew model rockets as a kid. I loved it. I would spend hours doodling my own rocket designs. Later on that wasn't as much fun to me but I got into RC planes. Later on I got into sailplanes, but never got rated as I had a cashflow problem in college. <br /><br />Btw I am 23 at the moment. I am a working mechanical engineer. Unfortunately I'm not working in aerospace at the moment, but it will always be a dream of mine. I just can't afford the cost of living in places that have the aerospace jobs, but one day...

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Yes but you have to make it very clear for them, that Estes 24mm is not the limit."</font><br /><br />The point is that you have to start somewhere. Let them build and fly small kit rockets to peak their interest. When they're ready, contact your local rocketry club. Most areas have an NAR or TRA affiliated section that holds regularly scheduled launches. Take them to one of these. Let them fly their rockets and see the grownups fly their big rockets. More smoke, bigger fire and louder noise.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"...suborbital manned flights ? Thats just bollocks, rockets are too dangerous for that..."</font><br /><br />I personally don't know any HPR enthusiasts who aren't very impressed with Burt Rutan and SS1...and maybe jealous that he has the money to build manned rocket ships. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

Model rockets are a hook, so to speak. It's a fun, hands-on experience that results in something that actually flies...or crashes if it's not built properly. In the process, rocketry teaches aerodynamics, flight stability, basic mechanical skills, propulsion among other things and can lead to further learning in these areas.<br /><br />I'm 56. At your age I was flying Estes models and a few scratch-built rockets using the biggest motors we had...Estes D's. I stopped mostly because I had gone about as far as I could go with what was available (large clusters of D's). About a year and a half ago, I got back into it. Now I'm flying H motors and much bigger rockets. Someday I might even fly a P motor <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />.<br /><br />I'm far from being a rocket scientist, but I get to launch rockets as often as twice a month. I'm just a big kid, I guess, but when I see the enthusiasm of the kids that show up at our club's launches I realize why I got into it in the first place and why it's such a great hobby for encouraging kids to go into things like science and engineering. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

I can still remember Estes made a 2 channel remote controled glider that you could launch vertically. Maybe someonce could make one thats styled after a SS1. Not the same launch profile, but could make kids really feel they have a peice of the pie<br />

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Maybe someonce could make one thats styled after a SS1."</font><br /><br />It's been a dream of mine for many years to build an RC carrier airplane and launch a boost glider from it.<br /><br />Unfortunately, as I understand it, it's illegal. At least it's against model rocketry safety rules. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[mysdcuserid]

I did actually see a video of a scratch-built White Knight/SS1 R/C Combo online. There is also another video of an RC B-29 and Bell X-1. <br /><br />I wouldn't let NAR or AMA hold you back. They are private clubs and they cannot enforce their overly conservative rules outside of their organization. Just make sure you spend enough time designing and testing, and use some common sense.

 

[rocketman5000]

not against the rules if you launch above the horizon as I understand it. I don't think it is against RC plane rules though. Not sure, it

 

[halman]

swampcat,<br /><br />So far, we have seen many ideas for getting people into the geeky, tech side of space exploration. But part of the problem right now is that space does not appeal to many outside of the techno-geek demographic. We are so focused on the hardware, the excitement of using that hardware to make discoveries, that we forget that there are lots of people out there who do not like high tech stuff. They often view the space program as 'big toys for big boys', and dismiss the spin offs as unnecessary gimmickry.<br /><br />How do we get the tree huggers, the environmentalists behind this program? We cannot use technology to appeal to them, because they often view technology as the cause of the problem, not the solution. Even in grade school, children begin to exhibit signs that they are going to be interested in building things, or nurturing things. Environmentalists tend to nurture, to seek ways to promote natural progressions.<br /><br />These are the people who often claim that we 'have to fix things on Earth first' before we go out into space. Showing them that Earth is a part of space, not an isolated, closed system, is critical to getting them on our side. Explaining that practically all of our energy comes from the Sun, that burning things to release energy is releasing stored sunlight, could open their eyes to space technology.<br /><br />But, most important, I think, is the argument that the resources of the Earth are limited, and extracting those resources is becoming more damaging to the environment. The same resources are available off planet, and can be extracted and processed without affecting the Earth's environment. Steel and aluminum are essential metals in our world, yet making them is very damaging to our environment, and requires huge amounts of energy. They both can be made from resources extracted from the Moon, using solar energy.<br /><br />I believe that using this kind of approach, we can appeal to a broader segment of the popula <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[dreada5]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>These are the people who often claim that we 'have to fix things on Earth first' before we go out into space. Showing them that Earth is a part of space, not an isolated, closed system, is critical to getting them on our side. Explaining that practically all of our energy comes from the Sun, that burning things to release energy is releasing stored sunlight, could open their eyes to space technology. <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br /><br />No, their argument is to 'fix "spaceship earth" before flying elsewhere'.<br /><br />I'm not sure you'll ever be able to turn young enviromentalists into supporters of space programs. But a start would be progressively "cleaner" access to space.<br /></p></blockquote></p></blockquote>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"I did actually see a video of a scratch-built White Knight/SS1 R/C Combo online."</font><br /><br />I sure would like to see that. Can you provide a link?<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"I wouldn't let NAR or AMA hold you back. They are private clubs and they cannot enforce their overly conservative rules outside of their organization."</font><br /><br />Not sure who AMA is, but the reality of the situation is that I do not have access to a private testing area large enough to do this outside of NAR rules. What you do on private property is between you and the property owner (up to a point), but NAR's regulations have to consider such things as insurance coverage for damages from member's actions.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"Just make sure you spend enough time designing and testing, and use some common sense."</font><br /><br />These are basic guidelines for rocketry. You either follow them or fail. Failure is expensive. Well, so is success, but at least you've accomplished something. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br />note: OK...AMA == Academy of Model Aeronautics. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"not against the rules if you launch above the horizon..."</font><br /><br />My understanding is that the rule against an excessive launch angle comes into play. For NAR, that's 30^o off vertical for model rockets and 20^o off vertical for HPR.<br /><br />It might be possible to use a different flight profile for the carrier aircraft than WK/SS1 flew and get around that.<br /><br />Anyway, I think this is getting off topic so I'll leave it there. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"I believe that using this kind of approach, we can appeal to a broader segment of the population than we can using the technology approach."</font><br /><br />Human interests are not monolithic. A universal appeal is not likely. Your environmentally friendly approach is important and I support it wholeheartedly, being, if not a tree hugger myself, at least very much interested in environmental issues.<br /><br />OTOH, those people you are speaking of, with their somewhat irrational attitude toward technology (who complain about it while talking on their cellphone <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />), are not the ones that are going to actually design and build those off-planet manufacturing facilities. For that, we need engineers, scientists, technicians...IOW the "techno-geek demographic."<br /><br />In order to realize the future you talk about, we need to encourage the skills that will make it so. Making movies, games, etc., are all useful (particularly when they stay close to what's possible), but the only way it's going to get done is to build the hardware. Getting kids interested in actually building things and seeing how the real world of physics works is much more useful, IMO. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[halman]

swampcat,<br /><br />I have felt for some time that we need a broader base of support for off planet activities, so that the engineers will be able to get the money that they need to build things. Granted, we need more engineers to be able to make our off planet goals possible, but without having a significant portion of the population supporting those goals, more engineers will not help.<br /><br />Probably most people want to improve their standard of living, even if the one that they have is pretty good. If any large portion of the world's population were to suddenly be able to afford the standard of living enjoyed in most of the U.S., the world energy supply for the next several years would be consumed immediately. How are we going to give people a bigger slice of the pie when the pie is not getting any bigger, and there are more people wanting a slice? We have to make the pie bigger, by expanding our sphere of activity off planet, so that we can utilize resources that don't come from Earth.<br /><br />Until we can do that, things are not likely to get any better on Earth, no matter what we do. Unless we get rid of most of the people. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>These are basic guidelines for rocketry. You either follow them or fail. Failure is expensive. Well, so is success, but at least you've accomplished something. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Failure can be dangerous too. Read the following imaginary headline and tell me how your bank account is doing.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><blockquote>Today, a homemade rocket careened into a house. It was designed to go mostly up, but instead went mostly horizontally. It went through the picture window of the neighbor's house, damaged the gas line for the furnance, and ignited that gas. Two people died in the resulting fire and explosion. Their relatives are talking about sueing the person who built and launched the rocket for $40,000,000.</blockquote></font>/safety_wrapper> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>>> "I believe that using this kind of approach, we can appeal to a broader segment of the population than we can using the technology approach."<br /> /> Human interests are not monolithic. A universal appeal is not likely. </i><br /><br />And then there is the approach that says "You'll get what we give you and like it." NASAWatch is carrying an article called "Lisa Porter has her head in the sand" in which she is quoted (under Reader Note) as saying "Why would I talk to the American people? They are the people that watch Survivor; I am not interested in what they think or want."<br /><br />It's people like her that have distanced NASA from the next generation - they've copped so much attitude and know-it-all that nobody wants to listen. They've even alienated a lot of your "techno-geek demographic" with their attitude. On top of that, the younger folks seem to have very good BS detectors and understand when someone is trying to snow them.<br /><br />Here's all the juicy details: <br /><br />http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2007/01/lisa_porter_has.html<br /><br />Josh<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

halman,<br /><br />I couldn't agree with you more. The creation of a bigger pie, IMO, is what expanding into space is all about. The increase in scientific knowledge is certainly interesting and helpful, but the bottom line for most people is how does it directly benefit me? Right now it's hard to get the masses to understand that it does. Or will <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />.<br /><br />There is certainly more to increasing awareness of the economic benefits of off-planet expansion than flying model rockets. However, it's been my experience that kids enjoy launching rockets and this enjoyment can lead to a further interest in space activities in general. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Failure can be dangerous too. Read the following <b><i>imaginary</i></b> headline and tell me how your bank account is doing."</font>(Emphasis mine.)<br /><br />I'm not quite sure what your point is here. I suppose one could dream up any number of scenarios that would make <b><i>any</i></b> activity look exceptionally dangerous. <br /><br />Are you opposed to amateur rocketry for some reason? Help me understand why you feel the need to express yourself in this way.<br /><br />BTW, being a member of NAR gives me insurance coverage for accidents related to NAR sanctioned events. In addition, those events are governed by rules that are strictly followed to avoid the kind of <b><i>imaginary</i></b> event you've postulated. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Testing]

This should help<br /><br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=648213&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart= <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[gawin]

I think NASA should also get out of the constant driving it into people that you have to be the best of the best in the top .01% to even think about working on NASA projects. They need to let people know that there is many average Americans working in the space program. They need to get rid of the L33T attitude that people perceive and show more about support people all the way down the line to the union heavy equipment operators that replace the stone after the crawler makes its trek. <br /><br /> Most people in the US know that in the US its not always the best that get the jobs but the best who can afford it. (IE. Ivy league colleges, the top trainers…..)<br /><br /> They need to show that they are working to make space for every one.

 

[ascendingsoul]

mandkind will be in space travel and i mean deep space travel before the next generation becouse there are encredible higher enlightened souls that have been watching humanity for thousands of years and i believe that they will never let us bring ourselves (meaning mandkind) to destruction.instead there going to and want our spirits to evolve on this amazing planet (earthschool) we are all one with eachother and god.

 

[halman]

JO5H,<br /><br />Part of me is saying,"Right on, Lisa!" and part of me is saying, "You arrogant &%$#@!, you had better remember that other people record what is said, and use it to their own ends."<br /><br />At times, I feel like throwing up my hands and saying, "What's the use? These people don't want to be saved, informed, led, or inspired, they just want to be entertained, with the least amount of mental effort involved possible." When I read about executives with salaries in the millions of dollars a year getting caught stealing from the company, I feel that we will reap what we have sown.<br /><br />But the next generation knows nothing of any of that, and is only asking for a chance to survive long enough to have their own kids. They deserve all of the help and compassion we can give them, because our generation has probably made their road a lot rougher. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Not opposed. In fact, I built a small kit rocket in Junior High. However, I do believe precautions should be taken (unless that 40 million is burning a hole in your wallet). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Their relatives are talking about sueing the person who built and launched the rocket for $40,000,000.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Yeah, standard American 21th century answer to everything: sue the &%$#@!. <br />Because this will make rockets safer, or better yet stop people launching them altogether. A surefire way to technological prowess, GO USA!!

 

[willpittenger]

Liability lawsuits do have the place. If you become a quadrapelegic in a car crash caused by a drunk, would you sue? Just think of all those medical bills, buying new vehicles, homes, wheelchair, etc. Having said that, some cases are out of hand. Worse. The jury will make sure you get enough to pay those bills. But your lawyer will gobble up to half of that. So unless you got punitive damages, you may have to choose between paying your lawyer and those medical bills.<br /><br />It's a lousy choice if you ask me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[vt_hokie]

<font color="yellow">There is a much better way. Offer them an opportunity to do the travelling. <br />If not as passengers, then as flight attendands on TransLunar Spacelines, as mechanics welding together the O'Neill habitats or as asteroid geologists looking for the best paydirt. </font><br /><br />I agree. For this reason, I think that Burt Rutan's SS2 and follow-on vehicles could do a lot to get young people interested, as spaceflight slowly becomes more accessible to the masses and less a goal that is achievable only by an elite few.