Ways to get the next gen into space travel?

[gawin]

Id like to start this thread to discuss ways that NASA can make the space program appealing to the younger generation.<br /><br /> My idea is that NASA use a video game that has real life physics of a shuttle/capsules from launch to landing including the robotic arm and operation of the arm on the station. Also include some tele operation vehicles on the moon.<br /><br /> Have the game like Americas Army free to all play. Now to make this more attractive to kids to play. Let have some very high end prizes for the top finishers/scorers. Say the grand prize is full astronaut training and a 5-7 day trip to the station. Add in other top prizes including real deal astronaut training, college scholarships in space science, internships at NASA, VIP launch viewings, real simulator time at a NASA facility, all the way down the list of things to space camps and t-shirts and hats. <br /><br /> Having a chance to actually get into space will have hundreds of thousands of kids playing this game. Playing this game they will be learning the physics aspects of rocket/space travel as well as honing their skills. <br /><br /> This is my thought as to one of the ways to get the next generation interested in space flight.<br /><br /> What are some of your ideas??

 

[john_316]

Start sending NASA scientist to the schools like back in the 80's all over the nation and talk to the kids<br /><br />It was good PR then because the Shuttle just came into flying and well we need the same stuff from the Next Generation too...<br /><br /><br />Make some commercials too... <br /><br />Give out more scholarships to engineering fields and science fields and express to the whiz kids that NASA and sciences needs them...<br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br />

 

[trailrider]

My idea is that NASA use a video game that has real life physics of a shuttle/capsules from launch to landing including the robotic arm and operation of the arm on the station. Also include some tele operation vehicles on the moon. <br /><br />"Start sending NASA scientist to the schools like back in the 80's all over the nation and talk to the kids."<br /><br />Both are excellent ideas! As to the first, you need someone who can program such a game (if there isn't one already out there...and I haven't found it). One challenge on this is to provide excitement but leave out a lot of sci-fantasy (no Klingons, etc.), and still keep it interesting.<br /><br />NASA does send some people out, as do some of the contractors. But both are limited by budget, and I believe NASA is still prohibited from some forms of "advertising" by law! <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />In point of fact, we need to interest kids starting NO LATER THAN 4th or 5th grade! That's when I got interested, and that was 55 years ago or so! Von Braun was on The Wonderful World of Disney, in the Tomorrowland segments. Also, he had the series published in Collier's Magazine.<br /><br />Today, there are so many distractions on T.V., on computer, etc., that it is difficult to hold the kids' attention. To make things more difficult, the Shuttle is passe', as there is no future to it. The focus has to be on Project Constellation and beyond.<br /><br />Another problem that needs to be overcome is the reduced classroom time available to teachers due to the "No Child Left Behind" legislation. Although well-intentioned, the result is teachers having to "teach to the tests" that have been required to show improvement in overall education. That just doesn't leave much time for real learning! As a result it is tough to get teachers to accept offers of talks about Orion, etc. I know...I've been offering to talk about Orion and beyond since it was announced. (Even have models I made.) Very FEW takers! <</safety_wrapper>

 

[willpittenger]

I should note that back in the early 1980's, NASA probably ensured that skewed shuttle facts were quoted. I remember hearing a NASA admin tell the administrator of JPL (at the time, Bruce Murray) that "shuttle flights were free. How am I going to pay for a expendable booster?" That hyperbole continued for sometime. NASA might still tell tall tales like that. One Hubble tale was that the human eye could not see outside the galaxy unaided. Wrong. We can see many other galaxies without help (except where you have light polution).<br /><br />Just how long is NASA's nose now? Does it have a nest on the end yet? Just how many of these lies to we want to tell our kids? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Your game might be like the one the US Army uses to promote recruitment. However, I would not be too suprised if a few liberties are taken in the name of "entertainment." There was one Shuttle sim that came out in the 1990's that added a laser weapon the orbiter. Think of the version of the shuttle that appeared in the James Bond movie <i>Moonraker</i> (specifically, Drake's personal shuttle that we see Bond use at the end). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[summoner]

Kind of like they did in the movie "The Last Starfighter". <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <br /><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width:271px;background-color:#FFF;border:1pxsolid#999"><tr><td colspan="2"><div style="height:35px"><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/htmlSticker1/language/www/US/MT/Three_Forks.gif" alt="" height="35" width="271" style="border:0px" /></div>

 

[willpittenger]

The shuttle made an appearance there? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[spacester]

I've thought about this a lot for several years.<br /><br />There are IMO two major disconnects between what NASA does for outreach and the excitement they hope to generate. And they *are* hoping, I don't see a well planned effort.<br /><br />First: kids don't want to do play pretend. They want to do adult stuff. Real stuff that matters.<br /><br />NASA needs to find ways to involve science students in experiments <b>and development projects</b> that actually matter, in projects that actually fly into space and/or have scientific papers written about them. If you treat them as kiddies they will take a pass. If you give them something with real meat on its bones, something that shows them a real path into the real life of being a scientist, they will at least sit up and take notice and have an experience with the potential to change the direction of their lives towards science careers.<br /><br />On a related note, NASA tends to be condescending to American adults, and they positively baby-talk anyone under 16. That needs to be corrected. I don't indulge in NASA bashing these days so I won't expand this point here.<br /><br />Secondly: current stuff is boring. The future is exciting. You are not going to get kids interested in Shuttle and ISS, I'm sorry but it is just not going to happen. That technology is so last century to the next generation. NASA needs to have the courage to put out visions future Lunar and Martian of adventures. Yes I know that we don't know what exactly things are going to look like in 20-30 years but I don't care. Put something out there, let the next generation take ownership of their future. <br /><br />Find ways for all students, not just science students, I mean the artists and poets and yes even the non-college bound students, to literally get their hands on a representation of their potential future in space. <br /><br />Get a bunch of futurists together for a couple of weeks this summer and throw something plausible together as a 'future history'. B <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[john_316]

Yeah but simple things like coming to your school auditorium and showing how the shuttle tiles work with a propane torch held up to it and things like how a space suit works and all the technical things I remember are the things that interested me more. I knew as a kid we didn't have warp speed to get where many dreamed of. I think Einstein really sunk in then too me.<br /><br />Now to get the kids into becoming astrophysicists I would recommend other scientists (not NASA) to do that. But for the engineering and technical side of it I would recommend NASA go forward with. I think most colleges can deal with the scientific sides of space sciences like they do now. Even the space medical area can be done at the university level. <br /><br />Let the contractor build the telescopes and let NASA or a private company (near future thing) deliver them to orbit but don't place NASA at the helm of every space exploration game we devise. I guess I am saying NASA needs to stick to spaceflight and operating probes, rockets, and that area and let academia deal with telescopes or things that are not going to have an immediate impact on whether a spaceship can get to Mars or not.<br /><br />Like most people I enjoy a picture or two of the local galaxies but I want to see men landing on Mars and the moon more so than certain sides of science. Now exploring those pieces of real-estate is the scientific field responsibility. I know NASA can manage some of those fields but they don't need to do it all. That way they can budget the priority projects.<br /><br />If some feel that NASA should being doing it all then I think thy are really wrong to think that way. NASA doesn't have the budget to do it all. And it originally started out to beat the Russians to space and then the moon. The life sciences really came later on in full swing. NASA should focus on spaceships and spacemen and spaceprobes while others in the realm of science deal with the weather, history of the ancient universe and things

 

[willpittenger]

NASA definitely needs to get away from the "routine". If they think something will be routine, it is time for them to transfer that to private industry. They need to get back to their roots and be a research-oriented agency. I think this attempt to pass the shuttle off as "routine" was a major contributing factor to the Challenger (and maybe Columbia) disaster. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[no_way]

The answer is simple. Timetables measured in years dont excite young people ( nor do they excite a lot of older people either )<br />Stop the "we will get to there in twenty years, we will do this vehicle in ten years" paper-study train and start doing things in immediate future.<br />Armadillo Aerospace and Masten Systems monthly updates and X-Prize cup reports were more exciting news of last year than all NASA PR put together, because with former you could actually see the progress happening.<br />With Apollo, the "we will put a man on the moon before the decade is out" worked because the leap from where they stood at the moment to where they were going was huge, and the road was full of important milestones. This kept the young people excited and wanting to be a part of this. <br />Current "we will maybe start building something in a few years in case our budget isnt cut" just obviously fails to excite anyone, no matter how you try to spin it and in what medium you forward the message.<br /><br />Like was discussed on many space blogs recently, the problem is not the medium, its the message.

 

[no_way]

BTW, which message excites you people more here ?<br />"In twenty years or so, you might see one of our guys on the Lunar surface with a flag in hand again, like with Apollo. This of course if our budget isnt cut and politicians dont mess up our good intentions"<br /><br />OR<br /><br />"Hey, we have got this small rocket company, we intend to get to orbit with what we are doing in a few years. We dont know what our exact technology will be once we are there but we figure it out along the way. Want to join us, become our customer or just come wath us next time we are flying the hot flamey stuff ?"

 

[erioladastra]

"Just how long is NASA's nose now? Does it have a nest on the end yet? Just how many of these lies to we want to tell our kids?"<br /><br />You need to be a little careful here painting with such a broad brush. First of all, NASA is not a single person or the Borg collective. Some officials did mislead folks in the 80s to sell the shuttle program and that is very unfortunate. Of course, there are other examples. However, more often not, I think you have trickle down where folks tow the party line not knowing it may be wrong, or the party line is accurate but not communicated correctly and so on. Plus, even the best engineers can make mistakes. I still find some of my coworkers quoting how NASA invented teflon. I am not exexcusing people propagating bad info but don't paint it as a bunch of devious folks purposely misleading america.<br /><br />In response to someone else's post, NASA folks routinely go out to schools. The problem is when you are understaffed there is not enough time to do so. Almost everyone I know enjoys talking to schools and doing it as often as they can.

 

[erioladastra]

"to get the kids into becoming astrophysicists I would recommend other scientists (not NASA) to do that. "<br /><br />Hey, we astrophysicists who work for NASA resent that! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> The manned space operations work force is much more diverse than you might think.<br /><br />Seriously, your proposal runs head into all the astronomers and scientists who feel that NASA MUST do all the stuff you propose they do.

 

[rfoshaug]

Try to keep spaceflight secret from the kids and tell them that we'd prefer if they don't get interested in it. Then they'd get interested. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff9900">----------------------------------</font></p><p><font color="#ff9900">My minds have many opinions</font></p> </div>

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>NASA needs to find ways to involve science students in experiments and development projects that actually matter, in projects that actually fly into space and/or have scientific papers written about them.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Centennial Challenges looked like a good way to do this. Except, this project is going to be cut, to cover Ares I development costs...<br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>If you give them something with real meat on its bones, something that shows them a real path into the real life of being a scientist, they will at least sit up and take notice and have an experience with the potential to change the direction of their lives towards science careers. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />I would submit once again that what is needed more are young people with interest in engineering disciplines, not science.

 

[cuddlyrocket]

The best way to get the next generation interested in space travel is to actually do some interesting space travelling.

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The best way to get the next generation interested in space travel is to actually do some interesting space travelling.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />There is a much better way. Offer them an opportunity to do the travelling.<br />If not as passengers, then as flight attendands on TransLunar Spacelines, as mechanics welding together the O'Neill habitats or as asteroid geologists looking for the best paydirt.

 

[holmec]

>Start sending NASA scientist to the schools like back in the 80's all over the nation and talk to the kids<br /><<br /><br />Absolutely. I'd go one more step and have NASA get a spokesperson for NASA to the younger gen. Someone that can make presentations, someone that can blog, kids can text to ......... In other words make a "docking maneuver" (connect) with kids.<br /><br />There is so much stuff out there in science that science seems so ....untouchable. Bring the science to the kids, give them the power. (Or at least make them feel like your giving them the power). And them challenge them.<br /><br />I remember the Air Force going around in the 80's with a semi truck for recuitment going to schools. A truck got the boy's interested.<br /><br />Also what about a video game, I think somone already suggested this. The army did recently.<br /><br />But I think it should be a series of games, virtual lab,....<br /><br />Come to think of it NASA would have to probably get more money from Congress to do a full blown program to get kids interested in science and engineering and space.<br /><br />What about highschool program on the vomit comet? Give them a taste of weightlessness. That is a good peice of arsenal. <br /><br />Have highschool and younger students witness a launch.<br /><br />And Please Please will NASA lobby congress to teach kids in class orbital mechanics????!!!! Physics teaches momentum and stuff but no one teaches orbital mechanics. I just think that that is basic. <br /><br />Kids of the past used telescopes, now they tend not to. Maybe that's because we have images on the web. NASA needs to open up the kids minds with tangible stuff. NASA needs to get the kids thinking about the challenges they will face in Space. <br /><br />Field trips.......great stuff to get kids out of the class room, I don't know what is currently happening, but sponsored trips to the local planetarium or sponsor an astronomy night..that is with telescopes, or a geological f <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[mithridates]

I would recommend they make a game similar to this one:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Orion<br /><br />But with more realistic technologies. In the game if you work hard enough for example you can take a barren planet and eventually terraform it which brings in more revenue and makes your kingdom stronger. A game where you begin on a planet that has just begun exploration into space would be interesting - a player could choose to be based on Earth but also on another system. The faster the player establishes a world government and gets into space the faster they can begin taking control of other planets. Actually, it doesn't really matter what the story is as long as:<br />1) It's based on real science, and<br />2) The players don't know (aren't told) that it's based on real science unless they feel like checking further into the game. Nothing ruins a game more than finding out that it was made by a government agency to educate the young. A game like Simcity where you run an aerospace company could be interesting too, kind of like Railroad Tycoon.<br /><br />Seti@Home was another project that interested young people. If NASA has an area where they could use help and the average person has a chance of becoming famous if they are the one to find the solution (whatever it happens to be), they'll definitely join. As long as it's not run under BOINC software, that is. I stopped using SETI@Home after they switched to that monster.<br /><br />An even easier project would be a screensaver that runs artificial spacefaring civilizations. Just being able to keep an eye on them while the screensaver is up would be a lot of fun and always keep people thinking about space.<br /><br />Another game that would be fun is one where you get to terraform a planet or large asteroid. Your company/government is responsible for turning a place into a <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

Speaking for my generation (15-25), we are VERY interested in spaceflight. What we no longer have is an interest in NASA, which has conclusively demonstrated that it is now more interested in white collar welfare than lowering the cost of access to space.<br /><br />We also have no interest in the overly "cutesy" games and "reality" television programing (NASA TV, I'm talking to you.) made by out of touch octogenarian politicians to support their white collar welfare programs.

 

[nyarlathotep]

The Civil What Patrol? <br /><br />What's needed is free markets.

 

[john_316]

I like that idea...<br /><br />Does the Mars Society visit schools? Do schools allow them access? I have never seen them in my neck of the woods I do know however my town has a telescope group but they number less that 50 by what I have seen. I was wondering if someone like them and some other space based NPOs or semi NPO's could create a larger NPO where if you join the one your also a member of the other and perhaps they can do a nationwide thing targeting schools along lets say interstate corridors.<br /><br />Example: the new NPO group PAO calls school districts in New York for example that are along Interstate 80 which runs all the way to California. They could send or even pay for a several scientist or engineers to start in town A and go alway to town Z.<br /><br />And when they tour the schools and promote the ideas and if the schools send info to the other local schools for speaking engagements and see if they can contact other representatives and send other folks to those other schools. Targeting certain schools as well even private and religious schools would be good places to visit.<br /><br />Another group could start on I-95 and come up from Florida to Maine.<br /><br />Then a 3rd group from California to Alaska<br /><br />A 4th group from California all way east to the Florida panhandle.<br /><br />Etc etc.<br /><br />I wonder if we could get Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Donald Trump, even Steve Fosset, Richard Branson or some others to donate the money with an "open book" and see what is spent expense account to do it. They could even send some currently unemployed or even retired engineers and scientist to do it.<br /><br /><br />Sounds like a plan but finances would be the problem. Build a Science Vehicle like the truck mentioned for the Air Force. I know some National Guard units take a Humvee and pimp them out to get people to look at them and think about joining the Guard.<br /><br />Perhaps a Rig thats Painted white with some catchy phrase "Like Space &

 

[mysdcuserid]

No_Way,<br /><br />Why would you prefer emphasizing engineering over science? Without science, there is no engineering. Science provides the basic building blocks that are used in engineering such as materials. Engineering is basically just applied science. <br /><br />Also, I still think that a great way to get youth (and the public in general) interested in space is the reality TV show idea. It would have been great if Lance Bass's trip and associated TV show actually happend (Though, I would have preferred a different celebrity).

 

[j05h]

A game would be nice but is in the province of game developers. Take control yourself, if you code, and contribute to the ShortHike source.<br /><br /><i>> Why would you prefer emphasizing engineering over science? </i><br /><br />There is so much more engineering to do. If you follow the whole thread out of where "private space" would lead, there will thousands of people employed as vehicle/robot operators as well.A nd there is going to be a need for people willing to go out there and live. These all have an engineering/ops emphasis. <br /><br />Is there a place for science in this? In one sense, it will be everywhere. We can't rely on a single government agency to direct this, that isn't how any frontier has been settled. We'll get to property rights later on (see Space Law thread in BizTech), I definitely support creating National Labs out of some NASA centers and perhaps giving Earth-sensing completely to NOAA, but that all has little to do with making "space" interesting to youth. Perhaps the International Space University can build a campus on each planet. Science will continue, but how many professional astronomers can we support? It's not like their is a pressing need for a million geologists with PhDs. There could easily be a need for a million settlers if SpaceX/Bigelow/etc succeed. <br /><br />We have the materials to start space development upstairs, but the engineering is currently absent. We know how to build structures that will work, but can't buy them off the shelf (yet). How do you make money and publicity out of space? How do you make it exciting? These aren't even engineering questions, they are economic/marketing. Solving these problems, starting now will allow more sciences to be supported in the long run. We need to amplify what we are doing, to create a broader base of support. For example, my Postcards To Space, if successful, will be able to create kilometer-scale telescopes among other applications. In this case, science and engineering are sec <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>