We came from Martians

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redroars

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I know you have heard this many times before but it makes a lot of sense compared to Santa Clause like stories that religious folks believe in.

Scientists know that evolution exists but cannot put togather credible explanations about our beginnings and how something like the human brain could have advanced so dramatically in a very short time. That is why the GOD fanatics will not go away.

Consider this - What would 10th century people have thought if a 21st century expedition suddenly landed from the sky in a helicopter and declare unconditional surrender or death by rocket launched missiles.

You would see that technology of our generation would be so superior to the 10th century that we would be greeted as aliens yet we are just from the future.

Let’s spin this a little. Assume that life on Mars started one billion years before life on Earth and the citizens there eventually moved off mars into space habitats because they could. Assume that they could hide these habitats with cloaking technology.

These early Martians could account for all sorts of unexplained phenomena that have occurred on earth. They could perform what might look like a miracle to our primitive society. They could account for ancient astronaut symbols and UFO sightings.

I believe that UFO’s and other unexplained phenomena are much more likely to be from inhabitants of our solar system than from some distant star. Let get real, Santa Clause cannot visit every house in one night and aliens are not visiting earth, but a civilization that developed in our own solar system could do all sort of things that we cannot even imagine.

I also believe that along with an advanced civilization a vastly superior social system would have developed far superior to our primitive culture. If they are leaving us alone it is probably for our better good. Star Trek may have had it right. Non interference could be the reason we are not allowed to know of this advanced race.

What do you think?
 
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Mee_n_Mac

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OK, my first thought is to ask why is it that if life arose on Mars and evolved into intelligent beings, the same couldn't have happened here ? Why is it more plausible that Martians came here than we just plain evolved ourselves and made up the "unexplained phenomena" you atribute to ancient aliens ?
 
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redroars

Guest
Actually the title was just to get attention. Ancient ancestors could have just as well developed on Earth. The point is that many ancient civilizations occurred right here on earth that we have proof of and suddenly disappeared.

It is not a stretch to believe that a civilization occurred far before any fossil proof. Why are we so sure we are the first advance civilization on earth?

Perhaps aliens did come here at one point. I believe that it would be a one way journey and would have had some sort of hibernation method for a long trip. The thought of this race returning home seems remote. They were probably escaping either the loss of their sun or planet or just escaping from some unlivable condition where they were coming from.

I know enough about the speed of light and the distances of space to assume that where ever distant aliens may have come from would not be the same folks or culture that they would most likely return to so what would be the point if not to stay?
 
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origin

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Scientists know that evolution exists but cannot put togather credible explanations about our beginnings and how something like the human brain could have advanced so dramatically in a very short time.
Sure they can.

Let’s spin this a little. Assume that life on Mars started one billion years before life on Earth and the citizens there eventually moved off mars into space habitats because they could. Assume that they could hide these habitats with cloaking technology.
Spin this 'a little'?!

These early Martians could account for all sorts of unexplained phenomena that have occurred on earth. They could perform what might look like a miracle to our primitive society. They could account for ancient astronaut symbols and UFO sightings.
There is no need for exotic expanations.

I also believe that along with an advanced civilization a vastly superior social system would have developed far superior to our primitive culture. If they are leaving us alone it is probably for our better good. Star Trek may have had it right. Non interference could be the reason we are not allowed to know of this advanced race.
There is absolutely no evidence for any of this.
 
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origin

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The point is that many ancient civilizations occurred right here on earth that we have proof of and suddenly disappeared.
True

It is not a stretch to believe that a civilization occurred far before any fossil proof. Why are we so sure we are the first advance civilization on earth?
Actually the is a huge stretch! We have fossil evidence of life almost 3.5 billion years ago. There is no evidence of any civilization on earth before our clearly human civilizations.

Perhaps aliens did come here at one point. I believe that it would be a one way journey and would have had some sort of hibernation method for a long trip. The thought of this race returning home seems remote. They were probably escaping either the loss of their sun or planet or just escaping from some unlivable condition where they were coming from.
This is fun conjecture for science fiction but that is about it.

I know enough about the speed of light and the distances of space to assume that where ever distant aliens may have come from would not be the same folks or culture that they would most likely return to so what would be the point if not to stay?
If they stayed, where are they? If they are cloaked in outerspace then why not cloak somewhere else - why stay?
 
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aphh

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Careful studies of human genome should reveal whether some people actually have non-human sequences of DNA inserted in their genes. We know that there are bigger variations in human genome than previously thought.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 072204.htm

Now the question would be, what explains these variations. Is part of the population a hybrid of humans and ancient spacemen?
 
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MeteorWayne

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redroars":1q0qdp5x said:
I know you have heard this many times before but it makes a lot of sense compared to Santa Clause like stories that religious folks believe in.
Why bring Santa Claus and religion into this? They are unrelated subjects.

Scientists know that evolution exists but cannot put togather credible explanations about our beginnings and how something like the human brain could have advanced so dramatically in a very short time. That is why the GOD fanatics will not go away.
A very short time? 4.5 billion years? Surely you jest!

These early Martians could account for all sorts of unexplained phenomena that have occurred on earth. They could perform what might look like a miracle to our primitive society. They could account for ancient astronaut symbols and UFO sightings.
Well, since there so far is no evidence for any kind of life on Mars, intelligent life seems like kind of a stretch....

I believe that UFO’s and other unexplained phenomena are much more likely to be from inhabitants of our solar system than from some distant star. Let get real, Santa Clause cannot visit every house in one night and aliens are not visiting earth, but a civilization that developed in our own solar system could do all sort of things that we cannot even imagine.
Again, since we have NO evidence whatsoever of any even bacterial life from anywhere else in the solar system other than earth, this is pure unsupported speculation. Could be the moon is made from cream cheese. That statement has just as much credibility.

I also believe that along with an advanced civilization a vastly superior social system would have developed far superior to our primitive culture. If they are leaving us alone it is probably for our better good. Star Trek may have had it right. Non interference could be the reason we are not allowed to know of this advanced race.

What do you think?
You can believe whatever you want, but with no evidence whatsoever for your belief, it is useless.

Wayne
 
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origin

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aphh":28bc002x said:
Now the question would be, what explains these variations. Is part of the population a hybrid of humans and ancient spacemen?
Oh I doubt it. We would be much more closely related to artichokes than aliens so I would imagine that it would be pretty obvious if there was a hybrid.

I am assuming that the aliens did not mate with bacteria 2 billion years.
 
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aphh

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origin":1cfx7v6s said:
Oh I doubt it. We would be much more closely related to artichokes than aliens so I would imagine that it would be pretty obvious if there was a hybrid.

I am assuming that the aliens did not mate with bacteria 2 billion years.
Actually, if "spacemen" wanted to change the course of human history, they wouldn't want to make it really obvious. If only 1 - 2% separates us from chimpanzees, then 1 - 2% should be enough to separate modern humans from advanced ancient spacemen.

Human genome carries with it most of our history. Some information has been distorted and lost over the generations, true, but most of it is still there. By studying our genome we should be eventually able to tell what happened and why.
 
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sacr3

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I'm just going to jump in quickly and say that the whole "God fanatics" you speak of, don't insult it. Science works on Cause and effect, when it comes to the Universe there is no Cause. It has no beginning, and 95% of the population in selected countries (being the US/Canada, etc) believe in a form of "god". A "God" isn't a foolish thing to believe in given our current state in technology and understanding, but enough of that.

As for your topic, I disagree on most things cept the whole "Advanced race would leave us alone" bit. By our own understanding we do realize if we want a civilization to retain stability, we have to only observe and not interfere. Assuming Aliens share the same Logic as us they would do the same, and assuming they even exist.

As for a short evolutionary period for humans, read Waynes comment lol.

Personally I don't believe we came from "Aliens" or were "Modified". We simply grew from mother earth through a long process. What drove evolution? "shrugs" no clue, but it happened, and still is.
 
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bearack

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My only contention (well, there are many) with your explanation is why in heavens name would they prefer to live off planet. If Earth was habitable when they were a space fairing race, then you would suspect that they would have colonized it and this planet would be a hell of allot more advanced than it currently is.

If we were more technologically advanced and Earth was dying, but there was a little blue ball a stone throw away, we as sure as hell would move to that planet and plant a declaration flag without blinking an eye.
 
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dragon04

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Glad I read every post to get to yours before I said the very same thing. Well said.

To expound (because you know that's how I roll), I'll pre-empt the assertion that we only need to look to Star Trek or the final episode of Battlestar Galactia (the 21st century version) to find a reason that as bearack stated the "Martians" didn't colonize Earth.

First, the argument has to make a chain of assumptions based on..... an assumption. So what we have here is the development of a Mythology of sorts. It's one thing to speculate about something, but to then speculate about how an entire civilization would have developed as well, the possibilites are vanishingly remote.

It might be proper form to pose the question "Did We Come From Martians?", but to state it in the affirmative and with zero evidence based on an improbable chain of assumptions isn't going to get far considering it has no legs.
 
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ArcCentral

Guest
I pretty much give equal footing to an Earth with evolution only, and an earth with alien design, both would take many moons to accomplish. Actually I'm leaning toward alien design more, because the fossil record looks gappy to me. :)
 
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dragon04

Guest
I don't discount "outside explanations" either. Your "fossil record gap" question is a good one. Maybe an archaeologist can explain to us why there's not a fossil record back to the earliest or early primates, or if there is, where we could have a peep. And I don't mean just back to Homo Iwasfirstus.

Although my questions arise from technological, rather than archeological origins.

I just finished a post in another thread, in fact, where I stated that I find it utterly remarkable that Man "discovered" how to smelt and refine metals. That's not just one piece of technology. That's a marriage of a few.

We used stone tools from Homo Habilis 2.4 million years ago until a blink of an eye at about 5,500 years ago. Over 2.3945 million years, we used rocks to cut and smash things. And people on this planet are STILL using that technology because they never got to Metal. Mind you, the art of stone toolmaking and the sophistication of the tools rose over that time, but for a................ really long time, rawks wuz it, cuz.

Yet somewhere in the Near East/Far East, all of a sudden Metal Mania ran rampant and in a fraction of that blink of an eye. I get fire... Flint tool users would inevitable make sparks cutting tools from dissimilar rocks and they'd either correlate the Big Spark (lightning) staring fires with the Little Spark being able to do the same.

But metals? The notion that said ore would have to be melted in a crucible that could handle higher heat than the ore they were trying to melt? And then how they came to learn that normal fire wasn't hot enough? As I said earlier, this isn't one technology.

Those are the things that compel me to keep an open mind and thought to an "external influence or source" that just might have stopped by to check up on their handiwork about 6,000 years ago.
 
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Mee_n_Mac

Guest
dragon04":2eriphqe said:
But metals? The notion that said ore would have to be melted in a crucible that could handle higher heat than the ore they were trying to melt? And then how they came to learn that normal fire wasn't hot enough? As I said earlier, this isn't one technology.

Those are the things that compel me to keep an open mind and thought to an "external influence or source" that just might have stopped by to check up on their handiwork about 6,000 years ago.
I don't know about that. Here's a possible method. Someone back when builds a firepit lined with rocks to keep the fire from spreading about and to concentrate the heat. This has been standard practice for homosapiens for 1000's of years. But this time he notices "water" leaking from the lead ore rocks he used. After it cools this "water" is discovered to be not water but something else. Perhaps it was just a pool of shiny stuff discovered the next AM after the fire burned out. Wouldn't take too much IQ to figure out which rocks contained the odd liquid / solid stuff. That lead could then be pounded into shapes and or poured into molds to harden into shape also doesn't take much IQ. REgular old wood fires in a pit get hot enough to melt lead. Now what practical use lead has to primitive man is a mystery to me. Perhaps it was simpler kewl to have and make trinkets out of. We do seem to have a fascination for trinkets.

Going from lead to brass or copper might just have been a search for more shiny stuff to make trinkets from. People would have know to fan fires to get them going and realized the temp went up as a result. When the new shiny stuff didn't melt out of the rocks like the old stuff did, perhaps they simply fanned the fires to see what would happen. Or to make it happen quicker. Perhaps they thought the rock burned away leaving the shiny stuff. Got me.
 
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ArcCentral

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Those are the things that compel me to keep an open mind and thought to an "external influence or source" that just might have stopped by to check up on their handiwork about 6,000 years ago.
I was thinking more along the lines of them stopping by 6,000 years ago, only to find that Neanderthal, or whoever it was ......... failed ... essentially died off. Our aliens would then conjure up some new DNA configuration that had a greater chance of survival ......... man.
 
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Mee_n_Mac

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ArcCentral":3eni03mz said:
Those are the things that compel me to keep an open mind and thought to an "external influence or source" that just might have stopped by to check up on their handiwork about 6,000 years ago.
I was thinking more along the lines of them stopping by 6,000 years ago, only to find that Neanderthal, or whoever it was ......... failed ... essentially died off. Our aliens would then conjure up some new DNA configuration that had a greater chance of survival ......... man.
I think it would have have to have been more like 36,000 yrs ago though. Cro-mag's are our direct predecessor. Now perhaps Ancient Aliens (AA) tinkered with somethings DNA to cook up Cro-mags but then they would have had to stuck around another 30,000 years or so to become our modern myths. And then the AAs left (or are still hiding "out there"). I doubt such a theory could be positively disproved but there's little reason to believe in it ... outside of some fun speculation that is.
 
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bronwyn1937

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That we are the spawn of people in another galaxy is as plausable as anything else I've heard and about as easy to prove.

But the fact that creditable sighters, fools and drunks have been reporting "lights and sights in the sky". for a very long time, without any real intervention, (Area 51?) makes me think outer space aliens are smart enough to stay away from us. I would. :roll:
 
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aphh

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Again, the answer is written in our genome. Once we thoroughly study and understand the genomes of different phenotypes, african, caucasian, asian, aboriginal and other variations of modern human, we should be able to tell how significant the differences are between phenotypes and when these differences were introduced.

Clearly at some point in history not only people but their genomes chose different pathways. We can crack the very dilemma of how modern humans came to be by studying the human genome.
 
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ArcCentral

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Mee_n_Mac":jpi1neen said:
ArcCentral":jpi1neen said:
Those are the things that compel me to keep an open mind and thought to an "external influence or source" that just might have stopped by to check up on their handiwork about 6,000 years ago.
I was thinking more along the lines of them stopping by 6,000 years ago, only to find that Neanderthal, or whoever it was ......... failed ... essentially died off. Our aliens would then conjure up some new DNA configuration that had a greater chance of survival ......... man.
I think it would have have to have been more like 36,000 yrs ago though. Cro-mag's are our direct predecessor. Now perhaps Ancient Aliens (AA) tinkered with somethings DNA to cook up Cro-mags but then they would have had to stuck around another 30,000 years or so to become our modern myths. And then the AAs left (or are still hiding "out there"). I doubt such a theory could be positively disproved but there's little reason to believe in it ... outside of some fun speculation that is.
I suppose we could debate when an alien might have plopped us on Earth, not sure it changes the odds of it occurring. This could very well be how aliens colonize the galaxy, they just plop life forms down on varios planets, and let them do whatever they do, with very little, or no interference at all other than to watch.
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
aphh":3oamj898 said:
Again, the answer is written in our genome. Once we thoroughly study and understand the genomes of different phenotypes, african, caucasian, asian, aboriginal and other variations of modern human, we should be able to tell how significant the differences are between phenotypes and when these differences were introduced.

Clearly at some point in history not only people but their genomes chose different pathways. We can crack the very dilemma of how modern humans came to be by studying the human genome.
The variations between the groups you describe are immeasurably small. That variations withing the groups are far greater than the variations between them
 
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redroars

Guest
Let me take a step back here. I realize I put way too much into the first couple of posts.

The real problem I have comes from a good friend of mine. One night he woke me up trying to explain to me that he had spotted a UFO. He had not been drinking or on drugs; actually he was coming home from a soft ball game that had gone into extra innings. He has no mental problems that I am aware of. He is just a normal hard working guy who suddenly freaked out one night after seen a UFO.

I am a retired engineer and always liked science and I have a good knowledge of physics. I grilled him for hours looking for some kind of explanation for his hallucination. I still do not believe him to this day but it did peak my curiosity about such things and there seems to be a lot of unexplainable phenomena. So I started thinking about it as if though it might be true.

If indeed my friend did see a UFO then where did it come from? Could it have been from another solar system? Maybe some sort of alternative universe or space worm hole? I realize we know nothing about things we have not discovered yet so who knows what might actually exist out there.

I have a lot of problems with most of the common explanations of UFOs because they seem so unlikely. If there were shortcuts across the universe you would still have to find the one that led to Earth or other planets with life interesting enough to visit. I mean I guess you could just visit every planet with even a remote possibility of life but that would mean billions upon billions of explorations.

Then there is the real problem of ‘why’. Assuming these aliens were from even a close solar system or had a convenient short cut; surely their understand of physics and science would be vastly greater than ours. So what makes Earth interesting enough to visit? The most common answer seems to be that they might want to move here.

Now, I have a real problem with the moving here explanation. If they have the technology to visit us then they have the technology to build their own world much easier. They can change sand into air and water for all I know but searching for a place to live would take too long and be too big a risk. For that matter just looking around to see what exists (exploring) would be even more unlikely.

So if UFO’s exist the obvious answer is that they exist because they are from our very own solar system and have been here for a very long time. It just makes more sense.

If you check by profile you will see I have written a book exploring that very real possibility. Yes, it is Sci-Fi, but it does give at least one other possible explanation besides what seems to be superstitious belief in aliens from another galaxy.
 
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ArcCentral

Guest
If an alien civilization manages to attain light speed for travel, all the difficulties of travel to other worlds vanish. They could have run into Earth a couple billion years ago, and introduced the necessary microbes for turning the atmosphere to an oxygen rich planet. They have no problem with it taking millions of years to do so either. The same aliens that may have visited a billion years ago may very well be alive today, providing they spend most of their time traveling at C. Time is definitely on their side. :)
 
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aphh

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MeteorWayne":ly9nb5x8 said:
The variations between the groups you describe are immeasurably small. That variations withing the groups are far greater than the variations between them
This is old school belief that has been debunked by scientists fully during the past few years. The Internet is filled with modern info about this matter. Drugs are being manufactured today for spesific ethinc groups because of variations.
 
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