WHAT ARE WE?

[lewcos]

"Space" has to be infinite (IMO) because even if there is an end to "space", there has to be "something" on the other side of the "end". <br /><br />It may change properties but it must be infinite because how could there be "nothing" on the other side of "everything"?<br /><br />Since energy never really dies, then nobody ever really dies, they just change forms - we turn into something else. <br /><br />I just hope that we get to keep our life experiences when we change to the next thing.

 

[alpha_taur1]

"I just hope that we get to keep our life experiences when we change to the next thing."<br /><br />It's an intriguing thought, and really that's what it's all about. We might know some day, but not in this mortal coil.<br /><br />Do we become part of a collective, but diffuse intelligence that is actually the universe?

 

[newtonian]

just_curious -<br /><br />You clearly have many misconceptions - assuming it is the Bible you are alluding to in your list..<br /><br />I lack the time to address all of that properly in this post, but here is a start.<br /><br />You posted:<br /><br />1) Drowning off all your "children" but on and his family because he is your favorite. <br /><br />Now, some other flood accounts in other cultures do propose such a petty reason for said catastrophe.<br /><br />The Bible, however, shows the reasons run very deep. Here are two examples in the context of the account:<br /><br />(Genesis 6:5-7) ". . . Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. 6 And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart. 7 So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them.. . ."<br /><br />Note that earth had become so violent that God regretted he created man! And God was hurt at heart. Also note how evil most men were, not merely criminal, but only bad all the time!<br /><br />Today is bland by comiparison - how many criminals today have only bad thoughts all the time? Today there is often honor among thieves, for example. <br /><br />Noah and his family, however, were different, e.g. they were not violent. <br /><br />Further emphasizing how bad earth had become, the account also states:<br /><br />11 And the earth came to be ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with violence. 12 So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all flesh had ruined its way on the earth.<br /><br />In effect, if God had not destroyed that evil world, they would have destroyed the planet.<br /><br />Sadly, we are getting to that point again - as per the warning in Revelation 11:18 that

 

[a_lost_packet_]

"WHAT ARE WE?"<br /><br />Humans are the only species capable of asking the question. Therefore, we must ask it. To not ask is to deny the very essence of being human. No species denies itself. In asking, we are following the natural order of things.<br /><br /><br />p.s. <waves /> Hi all. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Been awhile.. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[nexium]

I suspect the real God. if any, is more interested in how we treat each other and our thirst for basic knowledge than in the details of our worship. The many religions allow more people to be sufficiently involved that they ponder how they should treat other humans and the importance of basic knowledge and analysis. My church = The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is as inflexable as most, but who would get enthused about an organization that thought they were no more erroneous than their competition? Neil

 

[newtonian]

a_lost_packet_ - Hi! How are you?<br /><br />Good post.<br />Hope you are well.

 

[newtonian]

nezium - Hi! <br /><br />Yes, of course, how we treat each other is extremely important.<br /><br />Jesus was once asked what the most important commanment was - he gave two:<br /><br />(Mark 12:28-34) "28 Now one of the scribes that had come up and heard them disputing, knowing that he had answered them in a fine way, asked him: "Which commandment is first of all?" 29 Jesus answered: "The first is, 'Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.' 31 The second is this, 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." 32 The scribe said to him: "Teacher, you well said in line with truth, 'He is One, and there is no other than He'; 33 and this loving him with one's whole heart and with one's whole understanding and with one's whole strength and this loving one's neighbor as oneself is worth far more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34 At this Jesus, discerning he had answered intelligently, said to him: "You are not far from the kingdom of God." . . ."<br /><br />That being said, truth is also important, as Jesus noted:<br /><br />(John 18:37) ". . .For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.. . ."<br /><br />Truth does not change, per se. However, our knowledge increases, and this involves increased light and new understandings.<br /><br />This is true in science and it is also true in my religion - as per my signature which is also a Bible verse.<br /><br />BTW, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.<br /> <br />We are sometimes considered inflexable - but this is only the case in matters which are proven true, and in direct Scriptural teachings. We have actually changed our understandings over the years due to increased knowledge on various subjects.

 

[qzzq]

What are we? <br /><br />We're unique:<br /><br /><ul type="square">After the origin of life, that is, 3.8 billion years ago, life on Earth consisted for 2 billion years only of simple prokaryotes, cells without an organized nucleus. These bacteria and their relatives developed surely 50 to 100 different (some perhaps very different) lineages, but, in this enormously long time, none of them led to intelligence. Owing to an astonishing, unique event that is even today only partially explained, about 1,800 million years ago the first eukaryote originated, a creature with a well organized nucleus and the other characteristics of "higher" organisms. From the rich world of the protists (consisting of only a single cell) there eventually originated three groups of multicellular organisms: fungi, plants and animals. But none of the millions of species of fungi and plants was able to produce intelligence.<br /><br />The animals (Metazoa) branched out in the Precambrian and Cambrian time periods to about 60 to 80 lineages (phyla). Only a single one of them, that of the chordates, led eventually to genuine intelligence. The chordates are an old and well diversified group, but only one of its numerous lineages, that of the vertebrates, eventually produced intelligence. Among the vertebrates, a whole series of groups evolved--types of fishes, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals. Again only a single lineage, that of the mammals, led to high intelligence. The mammals had a long evolutionary history which began in the Triassic Period, more than 200 million years ago, but only in the latter part of the Tertiary Period-- that is, some 15 to 20 million years ago--did higher intelligence originate in one of the circa 24 orders of mammals.<br /><br />The elaboration of the brain of the hominids began less than 3 million years ago, and that of the cortex of Homo sapiens occurred only about 300,000</ul> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>***</p> </div>

 

[newtonian]

just_curious - On your 8 questions a while back, I responded on #1 and am awaiting your response.<br /><br />Meanwhile, all of our congregations studied this basic subject today and explained why some Bible accounts do not give enough details for us to understand that God's actions were righteous.<br /><br />There were a number of reasons why we should be careful about jumping to conclusions.<br /><br />The first was that often we do not have all the facts.<br /><br />God does have all the facts.<br /><br />For example, on number 8:<br /><br />Are you sure God can die? He is immortal, which generally means cannot die. Jesus, hwoever, was not immortal - hence he could die.<br /><br />Also, you are assuming Jesus did not volunteer to sacrifice his life for us.<br /><br />We do not have all the facts, but it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus would have volunteered to die for us.<br /><br />For just one example of why that is likely, note the following concerning Jesus as wisdom personified:<br /><br />(Proverbs 8:22-31) "22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, a

 

[newtonian]

qzzq - Hi!<br /><br />Thanks for getting us more on astronomy - i.e. how life and intelligence could be created on a planet. <br /><br />Of course, there is the matter of evolution and creation - i.e. are we simply a matter of chance or do we have a loving Creator?<br /><br />I agree we are unique - and micro-evolution is true since it has been observed.<br /><br />Macro-evolution has not been observed, it is hypothesis. <br /><br />BTW, there is semantics - one must define terms to avoid misunderstandings.<br /><br />I believe intelligence does not come about by chance but is the creation of an Intelligent Designer.<br /><br />First, how did life originiate to start with?<br /><br />Then those other steps - how did they come about?<br /><br />BTW - in view of the recent discovery of extremophiles, some scientists feel these life forms may have preceeded others.<br /><br />Do we have any fossil evidence for this conclusion?<br />And, of course. scientists wonder whether some form of extremophile might have existed or even exist on Mars or Titan, etc.<br /><br />For me, that would be a question of whether our Creator created life on thse specific planets (e.g. Mars) or moons (e.g. Titan).<br /><br />And the search for such answers is also what sets humans apart from other species..<br />One other point: information, e.g. informational molecules vs. statistical molecules. Chance formation only explains statistical results, it does not explain input of information or translation of information, etc.

 

[i_think]

When I think "what am I?" it becomes necessary for me to also ask "where am I?" If a God created us, who created God and the universe? If we came to exist without divine creation, then we were created by the natural evolution of the universe, but where did the universe come from? And don't tell me the big bang, because that just leads to more questions IMO.<br /><br />No one knows for sure, but I agree with the poster who said we must ponder the question. Even if we are not capable of understanding the answer. Finding the answer will require many big leaps of undertanding on our part. Many great leaps in the past have come from those who questioned accepted scientific "truths" of the time, and so far we have been able to continuously improve our level of understanding, but who knows if we can ever find or understand the ultimate answer.<br /><br />Funny enough, I think of this topic while in bed, and without fail my human brain can't figure it out and falls asleep. Lately I've been thinking 1) Either the universe in one form or another must have always existed, or else it must have been created out of nothing 2) My logic prefers the "always existed" alternative to the "created out of nothing" alternative" 3) If it always existed, then perhaps our sense of time is wrong 4) I could be wrong 5) I fall asleep.

 

[qzzq]

Newtonian,<br /><br /><i>Thanks for getting us more on astronomy - i.e. how life and intelligence could be created on a planet.</i><br /><br />You're welcome, but credit where credit is due: the late Ernst Mayr wrote this. I just was fortunate enought to stumble upon that website.<br /><br /><i>Of course, there is the matter of evolution and creation - i.e. are we simply a matter of chance or do we have a loving Creator?</i><br /><br />Creator perhaps, but loving?...<br /><br />Human kind uses religion to explain the unexplained ( perhaps even unexplainable ) and find some meaning in life. It's a social tool; it teaches morals and values, but also provides the followers with a sense of group identity and individual purpose and role. There is an invisible judge who will determine whether we'll be punished or blessed in the afterlife, so good behavior is achieved through fear of eternal condemnation or the lure of eternal bliss. Mostly a cocktail of both. Religion can only be expressed in language and art, stimulating these vital elements of human development. Religion was vital for the success story of our species. It may be its downfall too. <br /><br /><i>Macro-evolution has not been observed, it is hypothesis.</i><br /><br />A hypothesis supported by a lot of ( circumstancial ) evidence. Indeed so convincing the theory of evolution is credited by most scientists to be the most accurate in describing reality. The theory of evolution doesn't exclude a 'loving Creator', why do you think it does?<br /><br /><i>BTW, there is semantics - one must define terms to avoid misunderstandings.</i><br /><br />Of course. <br /><br /><i>I believe intelligence does not come about by chance but is the creation of an Intelligent Designer.</i><br /><br />I respect your freedom to believe anything you want.<br /><br /><i>First, how did life originiate to start with?</i><br /><br />Hmmm, we don't know yet, but then again, we're just experiencing the dawn of the great scientific exploration of our Universe. Sci <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>***</p> </div>

 

[avaunt]

Hahahaha. Interesting to see where this thread started, and then what it lead to.<br /><br />I fear to dabble my toes in these forums. I will stick to free space and scifi.<br /><br />

 

[qzzq]

Avaunt,<br /><br /><b>What are we?</b><br /><br />Come on, don't chicken out on us!!<br /><br /><br /><br />Pwok...pwok... <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>***</p> </div>

 

[newtonian]

qzzq - Sorry for the delay in responding.<br /><br />I go back to the fact that there are no chimps posting at SDC. Or apes, for that matter.<br /><br />I agree that animals often have personalities - our cats sure do.<br /><br />However, they are not in God's image. We are.<br /><br />Principled love, which makes love for one's enemies possible, is unique to humans on earth. That is the Greek agape, btw. There are four Greek words translated love.<br /><br />Eros - sexual love, romantic - some animals bond for life, etc.<br /><br />Storge - family love. Some animals have love in families, and are social.<br /><br />Philia - brotherly affection. Some animals have affectionate personalities.<br /><br />Agape - love based on principles. Animals cannot comprehend the principles upon which Godly love is based.<br /><br />1 John 4:8 - God is love - that is agape in Greek.<br /><br />BTW - I join you in being appalled at the cruel way many humans treat animals, and the extinctions of late.<br />