What exactly is nothing?

[voidpotentialenergy]

I believe you are mixing up empty space which does have quantum properties with nothingness -- the nonexistence of anything. Since no thing exists, there can be no properties of a thing. However, you mention "quantum leaps" or, more commonly, quantum jumps. Those occur, not in nothingness, but in space and I believe are an indication that space may quantized (discrete) rather than continuous. Another topic for another time, perhaps.

No, leptons and bosons do not combine to form quarks. The terms are descriptors of types of fundamental particles. There is no evidence that quarks are made up of smaller particles. They are considered to be fundamental particles.

I believe you are mixing up empty space which does have quantum properties with nothingness -- the nonexistence of anything. Since no thing exists, there can be no properties of a thing. However, you mention "quantum leaps" or, more commonly, quantum jumps. Those occur, not in nothingness, but in space and I believe are an indication that space may quantized (discrete) rather than continuous. Another topic for another time, perhaps.

No, leptons and bosons do not combine to form quarks. The terms are descriptors of types of fundamental particles. There is no evidence that quarks are made up of smaller particles. They are considered to be fundamental particles.

Yep for sure nothing exists in our universe.
Difficult to say if it's just a property or tiny (fill) or nothing is the see to everything else.

A quantum leap has 2 trains of thought.
The universe is quantised but the electron orbit flies in the face of that never loosing momentum, orbital energy and never allowed to be some part of an orbit.

Easier solution is orbit, nothing, orbit etc.
You can't change orbit or momentum or loose energy to nothing.

Even in the electron orbit it's not all electron in that orbit.
Most of the orbit is nothing and the leap properties forces it to be nothing.

leptons and and quarks you are correct that are the smallest particles.
bozons are another class.

3 quarks make a neutron or proton.
3 quarks never touch but are though to be bound with charges to form a proton.
Ever wonder what is between these smallest of things that never touch?

Fluctuation IMO isn't a property of the universe.
The universe/s is a product of fluctuation.
Fluctuation a product of either potential energy of nothing or instability of nothing.

Nothing as a math problem is a pretty easy one, nothing as a fundamental part or even creator of everything is a long trip of the mind for sure.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Nothingness is anything beyond our knowledge, beyond our senses, beyond all we have uploaded with our all senses and capacity in all means and it is subjective.

For sure the human mind isn't programmed to deal with nothing.
We are probably missing much of the universe not coming to grips of the reality of nothing and it's properties.

 

[Atlan0001]

Nothing is truly a puzzle.

Einstein made time a fourth dimension of space, and without dispute from his friend Einstein, Kurt Godel told him he had essentailly done away with time regarding space instead of merging the two (therefore a Space-verse: "A World Without Time"). I sort of finished the job, dealing in the other side of Godel's coin of logic, a Time-verse: A World Without Space. Which doing, breaks Space-Time in three, Space-Time, a Space-verse without time (therefore time is "nothing"), and a Time-verse without space (therefore space is "nothing"). Space-Time supposedly has both space and time, therefore probably has neither space nor time.

Reminds me of my posted thread, "Nothing Is Outside The Universe, Therefore Everything Is Outside The Universe". Where in there is "nothing"? Would it be in "everything" all at once? Potentially a blurring of everythingness to "nothingness"? Or, just maybe, to something else entirely.

 

[Catastrophe]

What exactly is nothing?

On and on and on it goes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Just treat "nothing" as a word with various common meanings, and not something about which to hold a philosophical discussion. The word has common meanings none of which refer to any kind of underlying reality. Just means very, very little or no thing at all.
Apart from that there is the mathematical abstraction of zero, or something divided by infinity.
Take your pick.

Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Einstein made time a fourth dimension of space, and without dispute from his friend Einstein, Kurt Godel told him he had essentailly done away with time regarding space instead of merging the two (therefore a Space-verse: "A World Without Time"). I sort of finished the job, dealing in the other side of Godel's coin of logic, a Time-verse: A World Without Space. Which doing, breaks Space-Time in three, Space-Time, a Space-verse without time (therefore time is "nothing"), and a Time-verse without space (therefore space is "nothing"). Space-Time supposedly has both space and time, therefore probably has neither space nor time.

Reminds me of my posted thread, "Nothing Is Outside The Universe, Therefore Everything Is Outside The Universe". Where in there is "nothing"? Would it be in "everything" all at once? Potentially a blurring of everythingness to "nothingness"? Or, just maybe, to something else entirely.

Yep i have given lots of thought about the nothing that is fill for our universe.
Could be a very simple answer to how gravity has instant communication properties.
When you enter between the smallest things you can travel at instant speed and leave a wake on normal space at C.
Spooky action and gravity i think are one in the same thing of gravitational info traveling through no space/time and through normal space to leave a C wake.
A few riddles of gravity and possibilities of instant travel open up if it's reality and nothing really exists as part of our universe and beyond it.
No reason to believe that nature made 1 BB and it stopped making them.

I'm of the same opinion that everything is outside the universe and nothing is outside the universe because our BB isn't the universe just a tiny player of an endless cast.

Can we even call it travel for something that travel through no space/time ?

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

What exactly is nothing?

On and on and on it goes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Just treat "nothing" as a word with various common meanings, and not something about which to hold a philosophical discussion. The word has common meanings none of which refer to any kind of underlying reality. Just means very, very little or no thing at all.
Apart from that there is the mathematical abstraction of zero, or something divided by infinity.
Take your pick.

Cat

I think it's a math thing that sets thinking.
All about crazy thought and possibilities that 0 is something more than 0.
Nothing probably exists in our universe and lots of it, but then what is nothing other than the absence of something.

Great fun to think about it though but bended mind needed for sure

 

[Catastrophe]

Yes, its the "math thing" that sparks all the "philosophical" mumbo jumbo amongst non-mathematicians. For all others, "nothing" means a variety of things in common parlance depending on context. It comes down to "too small to worry about".

Cat

 

[findingzzero]

Its really hard to me to even try to define nothing. Its like if someone walked into an empty room and said nothing is there but in reality there is space there which is something. So my question is what would true nothing be like? a place without space or matter?

OK semantics.

Nothing means nothing. No thing. Total absence of anything, including mental constructs like coordinate systems. Nothing more to be said.

Of all the answers here, my friend, it's clear you really do know nothing, and, quite intimately..
Or, to put it more succinctly, no one knows nothing better than you. And that's really something!
Now, I know what you're thinking, is this a put down or an attempt at semantic wit..
How's that for a first post?

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Of all the answers here, my friend, it's clear you really do know nothing, and, quite intimately..
Or, to put it more succinctly, no one knows nothing better than you. And that's really something!
Now, I know what you're thinking, is this a put down or an attempt at semantic wit..
How's that for a first post?

I have (nothing) to say on that

 

[COLGeek]

If you know "nothing", you indeed know "something".

 

[Catastrophe]

One answer to many of you:

Think nothing of it.

Cat

 

[findingzzero]

If you 'know' cars, you know cars!
If you 'know' nothing, you are an expert..

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

If you 'know' cars, you know cars!
If you 'know' nothing, you are an expert..

aren't cars made up of mostly nothing? ford for sure.
Does such a thing of as expert on nothing exist?
I think i might have a nothing award but can't find where i put it

One thing is for sure at some scale nothing is the man.
What it does if anything is the question.

Are we the product of nothing and it's inability to stay that way?
Yep crazy thinking takes you down that road of thought

 

[IG2007]

I am still at my point that nothing is unreal. Change my mind.

 

[Catastrophe]

IG - are you talking to me? Have you seen #57. Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

I am still at my point that nothing is unreal. Change my mind.

Space between fundamental particles?
Space between fluctuation?

Throw away the idea of time as a thing and convert it to simply the distance to go from something to something then we also have going from nothing to nothing gravity instant communication properties, spooky action and normal space start to have meaning.
The duality of everything traveling in one something at set speed through normal space and nothing at instant speed through nospace/notime.
If you can call that traveling through nothing/notime?

When our universe is so filled with nothing does distance really exist or is it just a perspective of being something stuck in the reality of moving from something to something?

JMO

 

[IG2007]

IG - are you talking to me? Have you seen #57. Cat

I am talking to no one, Cat. I am simply bored of this war of semantics. The meaning of the term "nothing" is relative in nature and I am simply trying to imply it.

 

[Catastrophe]

IG, isn't that what I said too?
"Yes, its the "math thing" that sparks all the "philosophical" mumbo jumbo amongst non-mathematicians. For all others, "nothing" means a variety of things in common parlance depending on context. It comes down to "too small to worry about".

Cat

 

[IG2007]

IG, isn't that what I said too?
"Yes, its the "math thing" that sparks all the "philosophical" mumbo jumbo amongst non-mathematicians. For all others, "nothing" means a variety of things in common parlance depending on context. It comes down to "too small to worry about".

Cat

I am agreeing with you, Cat.

 

[Misha Marchuk]

As for me, the word "nothing" means the absence of something. That is, no white or black infinite space, no numbers, coordinates, nothing at all. Nothing is nothing, it is self-sufficient and nothing else is needed, too many words "nothing"))

 

[Catastrophe]

MM, as I posted, nothing (outside the mathematical zero) is very context dependent. Nothing in a box still leaves it 'full' of air. Nothing in the bank does not imply a physical absence of coins, but a figure in a computer. In reality, there is never a complete absence of any-thing. The best vacuum of space still contains a few atoms or a little radiation (at least as far as we are able to observe at the moment).

Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

As for me, the word "nothing" means the absence of something. That is, no white or black infinite space, no numbers, coordinates, nothing at all. Nothing is nothing, it is self-sufficient and nothing else is needed, too many words "nothing"))

A 0 on a calculator exists.
How difficult is it to think that a 0 exists in or outside what we think of as the universe.
At some scale 0 is just that 0, but what is the lack of anything occupying an area?
Is that still 0?
Having a smallest building block of the universe like quarks, leptons etc is an open door for the space between then to be 0.
Even if we go down to fluctuation it doesn't fill everything so it has lots of empty nothing space also.

Math is great but can only go so far and sometimes a calculator and concept can get in the way of reality.

Is the universe odd or are we?

 

[Misha Marchuk]

A 0 on a calculator exists.
How difficult is it to think that a 0 exists in or outside what we think of as the universe.
At some scale 0 is just that 0, but what is the lack of anything occupying an area?
Is that still 0?
Having a smallest building block of the universe like quarks, leptons etc is an open door for the space between then to be 0.
Even if we go down to fluctuation it doesn't fill everything so it has lots of empty nothing space also.

Math is great but can only go so far and sometimes a calculator and concept can get in the way of reality.

Is the universe odd or are we?

Yes, math is such an interesting thing. But sometimes a person with his calculator goes too far, further than he himself can understand. I think that the universe is strange to us, but we are strange to the universe.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Yes, math is such an interesting thing. But sometimes a person with his calculator goes too far, further than he himself can understand. I think that the universe is strange to us, but we are strange to the universe.

A good example of brilliant math that the calculator got in the way is the pigeon hole theory.
If the universe is infinite then a infinite number of earths and me and you exist.
If an infinite number of universes exist same thing.
Seems logical.

But if each object has gravity in an infinite universe every object will be effected differently so no pigeon hole in infinity.

If an infinite number of universes exist same thing even with two exact copies of a universe every position in infinity is different and every universe is unique in it's gravitational position.

Great idea in math of a pigeon hole but in reality just a calculator and concept creating a false reality.

 

[Misha Marchuk]

A good example of brilliant math that the calculator got in the way is the pigeon hole theory.
If the universe is infinite then a infinite number of earths and me and you exist.
If an infinite number of universes exist same thing.
Seems logical.

But if each object has gravity in an infinite universe every object will be effected differently so no pigeon hole in infinity.

If an infinite number of universes exist same thing even with two exact copies of a universe every position in infinity is different and every universe is unique in it's gravitational position.

Great idea in math of a pigeon hole but in reality just a calculator and concept creating a false reality.

I completely agree, sometimes there are excellent theories that, well, I just can't fit with their mathematical point of view.