# What If the Earth Was Flat?

#### rod

Okay, remember a central tenet of flat earth teaching today is that we live in a geocentric universe and an immovable, flat disk earth. Can you stand on the ground and show the Earth is moving or is it the Sun that is moving above the Earth? Flat earthers teach the Sun moves east-west near the *ends of the flat disk earth*, shinning like a spotlight on the flat disk earth and this causes day and night.

#### mintman

You can stand on the ground and test gravity with an apple, then ask the question: "why doesn't the sun fall down." But really, why bother? Newton saw an apple fall to the ground and calculated the orbit of Earth. Flat earthers have the wisdom of the world at their fingertips and use it to revive superstitions from the dark ages.

Ken Fabian and rod

#### rod

Keep in mind, flat earth astronomy rejects Newton and gravity, some videos I viewed claim Tesla magnetism explains it all. An apple falls while the Sun is up-very different, perhaps buoyancy claims. The Flat Earth Society (Sun wiki) teaches the Sun is 32-miles across and 3,000 miles above the flat disk earth. The flat disk earth is the largest object in the universe and this can be correct given trigonometry like arcminute size for an object and distance measurement from Earth. Newton's gravity can show the Earth will orbit the Sun just like a small satellite can orbit the Earth - but how do you show the Earth is truly moving? Tycho Brahe attempted to show the planets moved around the Sun while Tycho's solar system with the Sun moved around the Earth and the Moon moved around the Earth, thus a geocentric-heliocentric model. The Earth was considered immovable. Flat earth teaches this view still. Various reports I read on popular science sites - seem not to address this issue. I know some in the flat earth community who told me that most folks they discuss flat earth with - simply point to space pictures of the round Earth as to how they know the Earth is a sphere. The ability to show the Earth is a sphere or spheroid and show that the Earth is moving around the Sun - is harder to demonstrate, my thinking.

#### mofekka

Okay, remember a central tenet of flat earth teaching today is that we live in a geocentric universe and an immovable, flat disk earth. Can you stand on the ground and show the Earth is moving or is it the Sun that is moving above the Earth? Flat earthers teach the Sun moves east-west near the *ends of the flat disk earth*, shinning like a spotlight on the flat disk earth and this causes day and night.

Here is a video I made of a ballon orbiting a light source mimicking the phases of the moon.
View: https://youtu.be/dd4N1fre6D4

this proves the moon is round. Why would the earth be flat?

#### rod

FYI, the Flat Earth Society does agree that the Moon is round while the Earth is flat. https://wiki.tfes.org/Moon

"The Moon is a revolving sphere. It has a diameter of 32 miles and is located approximately 3000 miles above the surface of the earth."

So a round Moon is used in FES teaching and a flat Earth Others in the flat earth movement teach the Moon is flat and translucent, including during lunar eclipses, stars can shine through the Moon. There are videos on the Internet teaching this.

mofekka

#### mofekka

FYI, the Flat Earth Society does agree that the Moon is round while the Earth is flat. https://wiki.tfes.org/Moon

"The Moon is a revolving sphere. It has a diameter of 32 miles and is located approximately 3000 miles above the surface of the earth."

So a round Moon is used in FES teaching and a flat Earth Others in the flat earth movement teach the Moon is flat and translucent, including during lunar eclipses, stars can shine through the Moon. There are videos on the Internet teaching this.

wow, lol, good to know. How convenient for them.

rod

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
What If the Earth Was Flat?

First put into English.

What if the Earth were flat?

Answer: It is not.

Cat

English is my native language.

Helio and rod

#### rod

I received a gift recently. It is an old Navy navigation book. 'Navigation and Nautical Astronomy' by Dutton, 1926 updated 1951 published and used at the Annapolis Naval Academy. Ship navigation and air navigation from the old days and old school with the math, including using the stars and constellations to navigate It discusses navigating on a flat earth vs. spheroid shape and how much error you will find trying to navigate on the wrong shape Earth, conversions for different distances from the equator to the poles using latitude and longitude and how to determine your ship's position on the Earth I find it amazing how the Internet and social media changed so much old school science into the modern, flat earth movement today.

Helio

#### Helio

What If the Earth Was Flat?

First put into English.

What if the Earth were flat?

Answer: It is not.

Cat

English is my native language.
Yes and it "feels" right to use "were". Is there an easy way to remember when to use "were" over "was"? Do you say something like adding "to be" to it as in, "Earth were to be flat" vs. "Earth was to be flat".

When I first got on forums, I didn't even know when to use "its" and "it's", but then quickly learned to consider the phrase "it is" for the later.

Catastrophe

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Yes and it "feels" right to use "were". Is there an easy way to remember when to use "were" over "was"? Do you say something like adding "to be" to it as in, "Earth were to be flat" vs. "Earth was to be flat".

When I first got on forums, I didn't even know when to use "its" and "it's", but then quickly learned to consider the phrase "it is" for the later.
I must dig out my book on English usage. IIRC the key word is IF, and it is called conditional.
I agree wih you. To say "If I was ... " sounds entirely inept.

Cat

#### Helio

I must dig out my book on English usage. IIRC the key word is IF, and it is called conditional.
I agree wih you. To say "If I was ... " sounds entirely inept.

Cat
Yeah, what I sense is that "was" implies something to be considered to be in the past, whereas "were" would be a sense of a future outcome. I once saw two posters get very grammatical with this issue and they used words like "subjunctive case", etc., but that doesn't... eschew obfuscation, at least for me.

Catastrophe

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Better still, I just googled "when to use if I were", and got a heap of results, of which I prefer:

Personally, I would feel happier always using "If I were" but it seems that this can sometimes be wrong. Nevertheless, I think you would have to encounter a real pedant to think quickly enough to pull you up on the difference in live conversation.

Cat

Helio

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Hmmmm . . . . . . this is an example:

Where Can I Use “If I Was”?
Based on the aforementioned argument, it’s possible to use “If I was” when something is not true at the moment, but it can be if the speaker tried.

Yeah. Getting a bit abstruse. Anyway, blow it, or, as I would say:

"Zum Henke mit solchen Kleinigkeiten" I'll go see what Google Translate makes of that.

Cat

Last edited:

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Hmmm it doesn't like "Henke" or "Henkel". As I remember it from about 70 years ago, it meant:
"To hell with such trivialities" but maybe my memory fails me?

Cat

#### Helio

Better still, I just googled "when to use if I were", and got a heap of results, of which I prefer:

Personally, I would feel happier always using "If I were" but it seems that this can sometimes be wrong. Nevertheless, I think you would have to encounter a real pedant to think quickly enough to pull you up on the difference in live conversation.

Cat

I keep hearing the opening to "Fiddler on the Roof" -- "If I were a rich man..." The link adds more dimension to this line since it would imply that the singer could never be a rich man (per the subjunctive mood definition, I suppose), which seems a stretch. So, if I was a smart man, I'd have somethin more clever to say, apparently.

Catastrophe

#### Helio

Hmmmm . . . . . . this is an example:

Where Can I Use “If I Was”?
Based on the aforementioned argument, it’s possible to use “If I was” when something is not true at the moment, but it can be if the speaker tried.

Yeah. Getting a bit abstruse. Anyway, blow it, or, as I would say:

"Zum Henke mit solchen Kleinigkeiten" I'll go see what Google Translate makes of that.

Cat
You were close...."zur Hölle mit solchen Kleinigkeiten" , per a translator.

Or You was close.... See how problematic this stuff is? Perhaps I can compromise and say "You is close". Yuk!

Catastrophe

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Yeah, I vaguely remember Hölle but I think there is a slag word Henke.
Anyway, no matter.

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