What is needed for a (hypothetical) future mission to....

[remcot]

HD 183221 a far distance class A2 (white) magnitude 9.75 star? (of course) invisible with the unaided eye. Visible limit with unaided eye will be around magnitude 6 or 6.5. How will it be to think about such kind of a future space mission?<br /><br />What do we need to launch a manned or unmanned spacecraft to this far distance star in the constellation Ursa Minor?<br /><br />What kind of technology is needed for such a long yourney through the space?<br /><br />How can you survive this long trip?<br /><br />What kind of speed is needed to make the traveltime shorter?<br /><br />Lets talk about this stunning (hypothetical) future space mission.

 

[nexius]

If my research is correct it will take 60 million years to reach a star at the magnitude of 9.75 <br /><br />We need some sort of way to wormhole through time to get that far and still be alive to see it. As far as technology I have no clue? Something that goes faster then the speed of light perhaps? How someone could survive this trip I have no clue, any human I know would be dead before for the first hundreth light year.. yet still be intact from going that fast. Other then the theory of wormholes and superstrings I really dont know what else to say. Mankind has really not even come close to figuring this out yet. Even if we did make it to this star we could burn up before getting close to it.

 

[derekmcd]

<i>"What do we need to launch a manned or unmanned spacecraft to this far distance star in the constellation Ursa Minor?"</i><br /><br />Tech beyond our capabilities.<br /><br /><i>"What kind of technology is needed for such a long yourney through the space?"</i><br /><br />See response above<br /><br /><i>"How can you survive this long trip?"</i><br /><br />See response above this response.<br /><br /><i>"What kind of speed is needed to make the traveltime shorter?"</i><br /><br />See previous responses above.<br /><br /><i>"Lets talk about this stunning (hypothetical) future space mission."</i><br /><br />All joking aside. We talking about technologies that are so far beyond what our current cultural system will allow. It is nice to dream about what we are capable of, but these dreams will never be realized until this planet gets it $@%# together.<br /><br />What we need is a propulsion system that is better than 100 percent efficient.<br /><br /><br />Medical tech that will allow the human species to endure the rigors of long term space travel. This is a long list.<br /><br />Speeds approaching some semblence of an acceptable fraction of Speed of Light... anything less requires human endurance we are not capable of.<br /><br />Probably the most important obsticle in our way is necessity. We humans are fairly short sighted and don't see the necessity... yet.<br /><br />It is, in fact, a necessity that we travel beyond the gravitational grip of our meager planet to ensure our species survival after our Sun's inevitable maturiation.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>What we need is a propulsion system that is better than 100 percent efficient.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />One perpetual motion machine coming up. Should be ready around the year 100,000,000,000. (Such years exist in one SF novel I read by Arthur C. Clarke. Too bad I can't remember the name.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Please publish your math. You appear to have assumed the distance and speed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Strangely enough, I believe that <i>Popular Science</i> once published a story on how future FTL spacecraft would work. I don't recall the details, but I think one was similar to <i>Star Trek</i>'s warp engine technology. However, please remember that even though they have "Science" in their name, <i>Popular Science</i> has a tendancy to ignore science when it comes to some topics like UFOs. Instead of publishing hard facts, they publish the latest wild fantasies. If stuff like that were included in <i>Wikipedia</i>, it would be treated as vandalism. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[nexius]

I did not use the math i found a star with the same 9.75 magnitude on the internet and it told me how far it was away from earth

 

[willpittenger]

That may change from star to star. Relative magnitude (or brightness) is a combination of how far to your star and its absolute magnitude. Relative magnitude is also affected by dust cloulds in the way. As for absolute magnitude, that varies from star to star with no relationship to distance from Earth at all.<br /><br />I also still believe you assumed the speed of the spacecraft. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

remcot:<br />What do we need to launch a manned or unmanned spacecraft to this far distance star in the constellation Ursa Minor?<br /><br />Me:<br />We would probably need experience with missions to closer stars such as Alpha Centauri, Tau Ceti, Delta Pavonis. And the choice of stars will be further determined if destinations (Planets) worthy of sending humans to are found. That generally meaning earthlike planets. Harsher worlds are best left to unmanned probes unless or untill we develop extremely advanced life support technology and find crews willing to deal with unearthly worlds.<br /><br />remcot:<br />What do we need to launch a manned or unmanned spacecraft to this far distance star in the constellation Ursa Minor?<br /><br />Me:<br />Such a craft will probably be built in earth orbit or one of the Lagrange points, or maybe in lunar orbit using lunar materials. As such, the departure will probably be from the vicinity of earth rather than a traditional ground launch.<br /><br />Antimatter propulsion has been suggested. Propulsion systems that can get you to at least 25 % speed of light would be desirable...even for a multigenerational craft. IMO however, it will probably be a propulsion system as yet unimagined by anyone of our time.<br /><br />remcot:<br />What kind of technology is needed for such a long yourney through the space?<br /><br />Me:<br />Propulsion technology that is either just emerging, such as laser fusion or plasma propulsion. Or propulsion systems not yet imagined. Life support technology that is almost as good as what earth has naturally. I envision pretty large starships which are at least a couple thousand feet long and 12 to 1,500 feet wide. Enough habitat space to support 2,000 plus people. A small city travelling through interstellar space. Recreational facilities, closed cycle life support, enough plants, even animals to incorporate into food cycles to provide food for the crews...assuming we haven't found a better solution to the food problem by <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[nexium]

Present technology does not come even close to adequite for such a manned mission. The distance is billions of times the trip we made to the moon and back.<br />A class A2 star produces more ultraviolet than it does visable light, and almost as much Xrays, so the space craft will need lots of shielding to reach the distance where water would be liquid. Also radiation shielding is a major engineering problem, if the space craft reaches even 1% of light speed. At slower average speed, we are looking at many centuries of travel time = far longer than we can expect the sub systems of the craft to remain functional even with facilities aboard to manufacture replacement parts of any kind.<br />It also seems unlikely that any of the humans in the tenth generation have the ability nor the motivation to make necessary repairs to the space craft. If we successfully re-animate some of the people who were frozen 70 years ago, this does not prove the techniquic will work for 71 years, nor that the re-animated people can live long useful lives aboard a space craft which will still be enroute long after they die again. Such knowledge can lead to insanity. Neil

 

[remcot]

Yes the Hyades can be reached in 500 years or so with 30 percent of the speed of light if i am not wrong and Alpha Centauri in 17 years (within a lifetime) The Hyades can best be done by a (unmanned) spaceprobe which can obtain information of this starcluster ,and it can look for eventually planets around the stars there but i dont know the spectra of the stars of the Hyades.<br /><br />And Alpha Centauri can be done manned in 17 years and then we can look for possible planets around this interesting triple starsystem and prepare the crew for a landing on this (possible) planets. This is what i think about. What are you think?

 

[qso1]

remcot:<br />And Alpha Centauri can be done manned in 17 years and then we can look for possible planets...<br /><br />Me:<br />Keep in mind, it would be possible with advancing telescope technology to already have a good idea of what planets orbit Alpha Centauri. I expect we will know this about numerous star systems within the next 25-50 years. Its actually this data that could give us the impetus to undertake an interstellar journey. But after reading stevehw33s posts, he brings up valid points about social stability. A problem that must be overcome for any interstellar manned mission to be a success.<br /><br />remcot:<br />This is what i think about. What are you think? <br /><br />Me:<br />Me too, in fact...I'm currently writing a graphic novel about it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

I should note that a common SciFi theme (used for at least Babylon5 and Star Trek TOS) have someone leaving on a long interstellar voyage, commonly with hiberation or colony technology. Enroute, some one who has already been where the travellers are going spots them and offers a shortcut via better tech.<br /><br />Hence, it might be that the fastest way to reach a really distant star would be the "Hurry up and wait" strategy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

Thats for sure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

stevehw33:<br />A graphic novel? Too graphic to see some interesting excerpts of it here?<br /><br />Me:<br />No, its just still in development. A lot of ideas are on notepad awaiting illustration and scripting. In some cases, scripting is done but the illustrations are not yet in place. There are also ideas I'm not ready to reveal in a public forum just yet, and the SDC TOS on spamming.<br /><br />stevehw33:<br />One's personal interests are in the organization and specifics of space habitat life, which if one thinks about it would be just about what a large group of space faring colonists would need to be expert about, if they were to travel to a nearby star, such as Alpha Centauri system.<br /><br />Me:<br />Looks like you have given it a good deal of thought.<br /><br />stevehw33:<br />Before one goes, however, one would need good solid data to be sure there are enough metallicity and resources in the sysem to be able to create a number of self-sustaining zero gee habitats there,<br /><br />Me:<br />My approach in the story is the well established logical process of utilizing ground and near earth space based astronomy to assess the worthiness of potential destinations in identifying the specifics you mentioned. Although I haven't so far gone into a great deal of detail. My focus was largely on looking for earthlike worlds and in a previous story, showing how spectral analysis palyed a role in that.<br /><br />stevehw33:<br />A Centauri is a trinary star system. It's not felt that the dynamics of such systems favor large planetary systems, which would have Enough of the necessary raw materials to create a system of space habitats, from which further interstellar exploration and local work can proceed.<br /><br />Me:<br />From strictly a scientific viewpoint, I agree. But only because I do not have the tools to disprove current accepted scientific thinking. For the sake of the story however, and this ties into some other established science you mentioned. I chose Alpha Centauri in ord <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Your speeds sound slow. I want Warp 9.999999999 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>