Who cares about the moon! Let's go to P. Centauri!

[dark_energy]

Or more realistically, Mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[cookie_thief]

Okay, but we gotta learn to crawl before we can walk!

 

[scottb50]

Centari is a star. I doubt you would want to go there. No planets have been detected in it's orbit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lunatic133]

That's why we terraform one, fool <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[decepticon]

I won't bet on that. Better optics might disprove that.<br /><br />With all these NGT coming soon, I got my fingers crossed.

 

[halman]

dark_energy,<br /><br />I am curious what motivates you to want to leave Earth. Do you feel that life here is meaningless? Do you think that there are no more frontiers, where a person has to rely upon themself to survive, and where there is no government to interfere with your life? Do you feel a yearning to know what it is like somewhere else? Do you feel that your existance on Earth will not make a difference to anybody or anything?<br /><br />Or do you not personally want to go to Mars, or Proxima Centauri, but you believe that exploration of some kind is important, to stimulate scientific knowledge, development of new technologies? Do you want to see new jobs created in high technology fields, so that you can look forward to a career outside of the service industry? Do you believe that your country is losing its edge, falling behind, no longer competitive?<br /><br />Many people have expressed a desire to "go to Mars," and I am trying to figure out why, when we have barely begun to learn how to travel in space, we have made no effort to develop the natural resources of a major body close at hand, (the Moon,) and many people don't even know where Mars is, or how long it will take to get there, much less what conditions are like there.<br /><br />I am very interested in your response to these questions. I hope that you will take the time to think carefully abut your reply. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[toymaker]

"I am curious what motivates you to want to leave Earth. Do you feel that life here is meaningless? Do you think that there are no more frontiers, where a person has to rely upon themself to survive, and where there is no government to interfere with your life? Do you feel a yearning to know what it is like somewhere else? Do you feel that your existance on Earth will not make a difference to anybody or anything?"<br />I express similiar interest, that is why I will state my answers :<br />1-survival of our species and life-Universe and Earth aren't the safest places, human civilization can be destroyed by space cataclysm, or destroy itself with bioengineered epidemics-spreading across the stars allows for our species surivival and spreading of life(if we find to be uncommon in the universe)<br />2-I am of opinion that human society as a whole has this need to expand, and explore, and without it human initiative and energy decays<br />3-I am also of the opinon that diversity is good for human societies-in the past certain dominant types of cultures proved to be selfdestructice, as globalization continues to merge our world culture it may too share this failure, spreading out would ensure existence of infinite types of govt, cultures and societes<br />4-Simple thirst for knowledge and beauty-universe is both a place of beauty and a place where we can learn incredible things that make us humble, I would certeinly wish to experience this or allow future generations this opportunity

 

[dark_energy]

Hey...I never said that the Earth was meaningless...I just feel like it's time to visit and colonize other worlds that can potentially save us from ourselves. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[arobie]

I know you addressed these questions to dark_energy, but I would like to answer them also.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Do you feel that life here is meaningless?</font><br /><br />Well, yes kind of. If we never expand past Earth, eventually something will happen to wipe us off the plane of the universe whether it be an asteroid with a lucky shot or our sun dying. Everything that we have ever done will have been meaningless if it and all of us are destoyed. <br /><br />I don't like to use that as an arguement as to why we need to explore space, though. If we one: don't destroy ourselves and two: are lucky enough to not be destroyed by an asteroid, then we will eventually expand of off Earth out of need. We will eventually run out of resources and room. <br /><br />That just happens to be the answer to your question. If we are obliterated, then we will have been meaningless.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Do you think that there are no more frontiers, where a person has to rely upon themself to survive, and where there is no government to interfere with your life?</font><br /><br />Well if we wanted to, we could go live on the bottom of the ocean or something, but for the most part, we are out of frontiers on this planet Earth. I personally have always had an adventuring spirit, so I want to go out and explore our frontier, and not the bottom of the ocean. The view is much better from space.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Do you feel a yearning to know what it is like somewhere else?</font><br /><br />Well...Yes.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Do you feel that your existance on Earth will not make a difference to anybody or anything?</font><br /><br />Well there are plenty of people who have done things to tremendously help our advances into space and have never been to space themselves, so I <i>could</i> stay on Earth and still make a difference, but I don't want to.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Or do you not personally want to go to Mar</font>

 

[dark_energy]

Err...uh...ditto. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[wvbraun]

Please don't link to political propaganda. From islamonline:<br /><br /><i>"As it enters its second term, the Bush agenda remains the same: <b>global domination</b>. Our response is the same: global resistance. There is o­nly o­ne thing that can frustrate <b>the empire’s dark aims in Iraq, Palestine, and elsewhere</b>: the <b>militant</b> solidarity among world’s peoples. Making that solidarity real and powerful and ultimately triumphant is the challenge before us."</i><br /><br /><br />What a load of crap. The author of this piece is obviously paranoid and openly advocating terrorism. I hope you don't buy into this stuff...

 

[dark_energy]

I link to it so people learn about Islam before judging it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[wvbraun]

By linking to such sites the judgement from reasonable, freedom-loving people will be negative and rightfully so. But if you think this site accurately represents Islam and its views that further reinforces my view that this religion is seriously in need of major reforms and constitutes a problem for the world as long as there are no changes.

 

[dark_energy]

I don't think the problem is Islam, I think it's a certain country's policies. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[wvbraun]

Iran? Saudi Arabia? Syria?<br /><br />I'm joking. Of course, as a good muslim you blame your problems on the US of A, as usual. Part of the problem with modern Islam.

 

[dark_energy]

Maybe they are the problem. :S <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mental_avenger]

<font color="yellow">Okay, but we gotta learn to crawl before we can walk! </font><br /><br />Of all the useless, trite, irrelevant clichés, that is probalby one of the most often misused of them all.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space.</strong></font></p> </div>

 

[halman]

Mental_Avenger!<br /><br />Long time no see! Yes, " You gotta learn to walk... etcetera is trite, and it is a cliche, But, personally, I don't think that the technology exists right now that will keep humans alive for years in a closed environment. Also, we have very little information about methods of dealing with radiation in outer space. Experience would help.<br /><br />Afte seeing humans walk on the Moon several times, I often wonder if we have lost the ability to even crawl. We have the potential to be on several worlds 100 years from now, if we can only find agreement on what to do first. Heading out on romantic adventures to insure the future of the race is a form of escape, I think, from the very pressing problems we are facing. If they are not dealt with, it is unlikely that 100 years will see the human race venturing far from home.<br /><br />We are at what has proven to be a rare moment: the President is publically supporting a new direction in the space program. This doesn't happen very often, folks, so let's all get on the track and help push the wagon. We can work out the differences later. Everything in space that we wish to accomplish is in danger of becaming farther away in time if we do not act now. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[halman]

wvbraun,<br /><br />Right before the United States invaded Iraq, I was thinking about how wonderful it would be if the U. S. invaded Isreal, seperated the Isrealis and the Palestinians, kicked the Isrealis out of the areas that were promised many years ago to the Palestinians, and set up a Palisntinian state. I was so tired of hearing about the violence, which has been going on since 1948, because no one would deal with the problems created when several hunred thousand? million? people were kicked out of their ancestral homes so that a Biblical phrophecy could be attained.<br /><br />Peace was so close once, but the rabid anti Palestine-state leaders of Isreal got into power, and began doing everything possible to antagonize the Palistinians. By provoking violent responses to incidents by trumping the incidents up, and then retaliating heavily for the violence, Sharon was able to say that the Palistinians were not ready to have a state, all the while encouraging furthur settlement in the lands promised the Palistinians.<br /><br />Were it not for the United States, Isreal would have had no choice but to allow the creation of a Palistinian state. Because we have not only allowed, but aided, Isreal in opressing large numbers of Muslims, we are considered the root of the problem, and the people who oppose us do not have armies, or political power. They resort to the only kind of war that they think will work: terror.<br /><br />Establishing a Palistinian state that includes all the lands promised to them would force Isreal to give up lands which it claims it captured in war, and which are therfore now Isreali land. Palistine was not promised all of the West Bank, so that Isreal would have a chance to enlarge its borders where they were only three miles apart. Instead, Isreal wants all of the West Bank, which would leave the Palisitinians with the Gaza Strip, a tiny area wedged between Isreal and the sea.<br /><br />People have been abused, lied to, and led on. Those peopl <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[toymaker]

What does it have to do with colonisation of space ? Proxima Centauri or Moon ?

 

[wvbraun]

"Peace was so close once, but the rabid anti Palestine-state leaders of Isreal got into power, and began doing everything possible to antagonize the Palistinians. By provoking violent responses to incidents by trumping the incidents up, and then retaliating heavily for the violence, Sharon was able to say that the Palistinians were not ready to have a state, all the while encouraging furthur settlement in the lands promised the Palistinians."<br /><br />If Arafat had been more cooperative the palestinians could have their own state right now. He blew it. <br />Israel "provoked" terror attacks? Right. I can't even express how sick and twisted this view is IMO. The majority of the palestinians are a bunch of fanatics who want Israel destroyed. You can't reason with these people or hope to get along with them.<br /><br /><br />"People have been abused, lied to, and led on. Those people are part of a religion which is struggling with moving into the present. The right wing fundamentalists of Islam have decided that the West is the infidel, who will corrupt the faithful of Islam. These people get on their knees 5 times a day, and touch their foreheads to the ground. Compared to going to church once a week, that is serious religion. The very presence of Westerners, especially Western women, is extremely annoying to these fundamentalists. What does the U. S. do in response? Send a bunch of Westerners, including large numbers of women, to one of the oldest Muslim nations in the world.<br /><br />Most Muslims believe that they can co-exist with Westerners, if the Westerners would be a little more respectful of the ways of Islam."<br /><br /><br />So what are you suggesting here? That the western world should be more sensitive? That is precisely the wrong approach. Why should we pretend to respect this non-culture of religious fanatism, superstition, crazy conspiracy theories ('jewish world conspiracy') and hate? I don't see a reason for that. If we don't like what they're doing, if we

 

[dark_energy]

Israel invaded Palestine because "God" told them to. I don't think that is justified. Israel builds settlements on Palestinian land on top of that they were sent out of their homes. Israel demolish their homes. Israel calls the uprising "terror" when the Palestinians only want their land back. Oh and about Islam being a superstitious religion based on fanatism is a biased and wrongful opinion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[wvbraun]

Lies and halftruths. I'm too lazy to point out all the errors in your post.<br /><br />Terror is never justified, no matter what. The palestinians should try to get along with the israelis no to blow them up. They have never even seriously tried.<br /><br />

 

[dark_energy]

If Russia decided to invade your home and country and threaten you with curfews and nuclear missiles, what would your reaction be? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

Very nice post, Arobie! That's the pioneering spirit that will get this space age going in earnest!<br /><br />So do you think you'll be a private astronaut, or will you work for NASA? <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>