Who is on the picture and when it was taken?

[cello]

Some time ago I found this picture somewhere on the net.<br /><br /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/15/f968f0ec-f711-4f68-9f19-5c97ef5c4a17.Medium.jpg" alt="" /><br /><br />The question is: Who is on the picture and when it was taken? (assuming, it's not a fake)<br /><br />Lower left, of course, Gagarin. He received colonel on November 1963 and died on March 1968. So, that's timeframe for sure. Lower right, could be Nikolayev. And we could see rank of Lt colonel. Upper right, seems to me like Bykovsky, also Lt colonel. Upper middle - no idea. Upper left, hm, I don't know (Beregovoy, Lazarev, Popovich). Doesn't look much like Komarov (died on April 1967), but that doesn't mean that he was already dead, when picture was shoot.<br /><br />Anyway, I found that picture very interesting. It's from 60ties and mockup in the center looks familiar. Doesn't it?

 

[shuttle_guy]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Some time ago I found this picture somewhere on the net. The question is: Who is on the picture and when it was taken? (assuming, it's not a fake)Lower left, of course, Gagarin. He received colonel on November 1963 and died on March 1968. So, that's timeframe for sure. Lower right, could be Nikolayev. And we could see rank of Lt colonel. Upper right, seems to me like Bykovsky, also Lt colonel. Upper middle - no idea. Upper left, hm, I don't know (Beregovoy, Lazarev, Popovich). Doesn't look much like Komarov (died on April 1967), but that doesn't mean that he was already dead, when picture was shoot.Anyway, I found that picture very interesting. It's from 60ties and mockup in the center looks familiar. Doesn't it? <br />Posted by cello</DIV></p><p>I bet they are probably&nbsp;all cosmonauts I agree on your identification of&nbsp;Gargarin. Perhaps you can find pictures at the below site to help you with the others.</p><p>http://www.astronautix.com/</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Some time ago I found this picture somewhere on the net. The question is: Who is on the picture and when it was taken? (assuming, it's not a fake)Lower left, of course, Gagarin. He received colonel on November 1963 and died on March 1968. So, that's timeframe for sure. Lower right, could be Nikolayev. And we could see rank of Lt colonel. Upper right, seems to me like Bykovsky, also Lt colonel. Upper middle - no idea. Upper left, hm, I don't know (Beregovoy, Lazarev, Popovich). Doesn't look much like Komarov (died on April 1967), but that doesn't mean that he was already dead, when picture was shoot.Anyway, I found that picture very interesting. It's from 60ties and mockup in the center looks familiar. Doesn't it? <br /> Posted by cello</DIV></p><p>I can't really help you with the faces, but the mockup is intriguing.&nbsp; Spaceplanes were on the minds of most rocket designers in the 60s, and had been for a long time.&nbsp; The Germans had done some design work on a suborbital rocketplane bomber that would skip off of the upper atmosphere to greatly increase its range, allowing it to take off from Germany, bomb the US, and return to Germany without refueling.&nbsp; The Soviets inherited that work after the war, by capturing one of the designers and having him do some more work on it, but it never made it past the design stage.&nbsp; This could be related to that, or it could be something Korolev was working on.&nbsp; I believe he also had spaceplane dreams. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font size="3">I couldn't find anything to quite match the nose and wings at this web site. Maybe other eyes will be sharper.</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[cello]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I couldn't find anything to quite match the nose and wings at this web site. Maybe other eyes will be sharper. <br /> Posted by lampblack</DIV></p><p>Early idea very often differs from actual design and real machine. Von Braun's moon ship drawing in 20ties also have very little common with Apollo. http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/116267main_von_braun_300x256.jpg</p><p><br />The point is, mockup is very space shuttle like. Even more, it's Russian Buran like. At least 20 years before it was ready for takeoff.</p>

 

[kurt_wagner]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Some time ago I found this picture somewhere on the net. The question is: Who is on the picture and when it was taken? (assuming, it's not a fake)Lower left, of course, Gagarin. He received colonel on November 1963 and died on March 1968. So, that's timeframe for sure. Lower right, could be Nikolayev. And we could see rank of Lt colonel. Upper right, seems to me like Bykovsky, also Lt colonel. Upper middle - no idea. Upper left, hm, I don't know (Beregovoy, Lazarev, Popovich). Doesn't look much like Komarov (died on April 1967), but that doesn't mean that he was already dead, when picture was shoot.Anyway, I found that picture very interesting. It's from 60ties and mockup in the center looks familiar. Doesn't it? <br />Posted by cello</DIV></p><p>I have no proof, but my inclination is to think it's a legit cosmonaut picture with the shuttle prototype windtunnel model photoshopped in. This combination of elements lends credibility to the notion that the Soviets were well along toward a final moldline of Buran before the Shuttle was nearly that far along. Other reports I've read say that they obtained most of the design of their shuttle directly from the US hardware drawings. I suspect that if a really good image search is done, this photo exists with a model of Zond or another Soviet spacecraft occupying the spot where this shuttle-like model is here. - KWW<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtwagner</p><p> </p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<p>I think it looks more like Spiral than Buran, honestly, especially with that tapered nose.</p><p>Without being involved in espionage, I don't think any of us can really know much about whether the Russians had actual Shuttle blueprints, but my understanding is that they copied the *look* more than the substance.&nbsp; Really, Buran is a completely different bird.&nbsp; The similarities in shape are dictated mostly by aerodynamics.&nbsp; It's the same reason why an A320 and a 737 look so similar -- they're built to do the same job.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[kurt_wagner]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I think it looks more like Spiral than Buran, honestly, especially with that tapered nose.Without being involved in espionage, I don't think any of us can really know much about whether the Russians had actual Shuttle blueprints, but my understanding is that they copied the *look* more than the substance.&nbsp; Really, Buran is a completely different bird.&nbsp; The similarities in shape are dictated mostly by aerodynamics.&nbsp; It's the same reason why an A320 and a 737 look so similar -- they're built to do the same job. <br />Posted by CalliArcale</DIV><br /><br />I can't argue with that. For a spacecraft to do what a Shuttle does, with the sizes being similar, it does need to look a certain way. The shuttle's shape evolved distinctly as the various elements were worked out and capabilities added or deleted. It's water long under the bridge and probably not even worth another post, but I still believe personally that this photo was altered. I'm not making any accusations or buying into any conspiracy theory. We have enough to think about regarding the future of our current and in-development systems. It's a null conversation since we seem to have concluded that the functional requirements for Shuttle are no longer present - and we're moving to Orion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtwagner</p><p> </p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p>I haven't seen this image before, but have heard of it.&nbsp; It is supposed to be genuine.</p><p>After all, there is nothing remarkable about the idea of&nbsp;delta winged space plane.&nbsp; </p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

It's a strange picture as most of them seem to be looking down at there boots or something and only one is looking at the model. The shadows and lighting appear a little weird too. I suspect it might be a collage. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[steve82]

You might want to ask Jim Oberg (http://www.jamesoberg.com/) he used to be a real authority on a lot of those old Russian cosmonaut pics.

 

[aphh]

<p>Russians had several programs for winged space-planes and lifting bodies of various sizes and tasks in the 60ies and the 70ies. <br /><br />Besides Buran, another program called BOR produced a orbiter, BOR-4, a lifting body vastly smaller than Buran, that actually orbited the earth and returned unharmed.</p><p>The design of BOR-4 was captured by a Australian spyplane and was extensively studied by NASA, who found the shape to be very nearly optimal for a small winged space-plane. HL-20 program by NASA was a derivative of the Russian BOR program.</p><p>Today those designs exist as SpaceDev's DreamChaser. I have no knowledge whether DreamChaser is actually going to be built.&nbsp;</p><p>If you're interested, here's more about HL-20 and how close we were of actually having a small winged space-plane in the human spaceflight fleet: http://www.astronautix.com/craft/hl20.htm &nbsp;</p>

 

[cello]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It's a strange picture as most of them seem to be looking down at there boots or something and only one is looking at the model. The shadows and lighting appear a little weird too. I suspect it might be a collage. <br /> Posted by earth_bound_misfit</DIV></p><p>Could be, and could be not. I just found that link.</p><p>On the very similar picture we could see, it's taken in wind tunnel. But on "original" lamps are photoshoped out.<br />Another one, where mockup alone, doesn't seem to me like collage at all.</p><p>http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-test-tsagi.php </p>

 

[silylene old]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Could be, and could be not. I just found that link.On the very similar picture we could see, it's taken in wind tunnel. But on "original" lamps are photoshoped out.Another one, where mockup alone, doesn't seem to me like collage at all.http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-test-tsagi.php <br />Posted by cello</DIV><br /><br />The men's faces are lit from the right, the shuttle is lit from the left, the rods holding the shuttle are lit from the right.&nbsp; Looks like a photoshop to me, unless the photographer used directed spot lights. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[cello]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The men's faces are lit from the right, the shuttle is lit from the left, the rods holding the shuttle are lit from the right.&nbsp; Looks like a photoshop to me, unless the photographer used directed spot lights. <br /> Posted by silylene</DIV></p><p>There is at least two light sources. One from right. It lights faces. It also lights mockup in the same way, see nose. Second could be from up (not left). It lights mockup wing, but not tail. It also lights cosmonauts heads from up, see hair. </p>

 

[newsartist]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There is at least two light sources. One from right. It lights faces. It also lights mockup in the same way, see nose. Second could be from up (not left). It lights mockup wing, but not tail. It also lights cosmonauts heads from up, see hair. <br />Posted by cello</DIV></p><p>It looks genuine to me. It is a wind tunnel test model. Such lighting would be designed for photographing the test subjects from several angles.&nbsp;</p><p>The model&nbsp;be anything from a planned project to simply a test rig to look at some particular aerodynamic situation.</p><p>One of them, (technician?) seems to be working on the support 'sting'. Possibly the Cosmonauts are the guests of a show-and-tell of the facility as it is explained to them?</p><p><br /><br />&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Par72]

That's Robert De Niro on the lower right.<br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/14/83054c9d-a043-4701-8e6d-a0102dbf67a1.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#3366ff">I am par72 since '03 and <font size="3" color="#0000ff">I'm a cluster finally</font>!!! <font size="1" color="#000000">pay no attention to that stuff on the left!!!</font></font></p><p> </p> </div>