Will SpaceX carry Boeing Starliner crew home? Here’s how Dragon could do it

And now there is this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/nasa-report-boeing-damning-assessments-rcna165813

"The report, released Thursday by NASA’s Office of Inspector General, calls into question Boeing’s standards and quality control for its part in NASA’s efforts to return astronauts to the moon."

"according to the report, Boeing’s quality control systems fall short of NASA’s requirements, and some known deficiencies have gone unaddressed. What's more, the workers on the project are not, as a whole, sufficiently experienced or well trained, according to the inspector general."

This report is focused on the Artemis project, but obviously has ramifications for decisions about StarLiner and the current CFT issues.
 
Jul 29, 2024
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I think it's safe to assume all the brightest and best Scientists and Engineers who are interested in space are going to be applying to the many new space companies and not want to work at Boeing and have it's legacy monolith around their necks.
 
So, Boeing management is going through some changes:


https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...store-trust-stay-close-production-2024-08-08/

I hope it works. We need companies like Boeing used to be.
 

Laz

Mar 16, 2024
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it would be cool if they had individual "egg" escape pods that would survive re-entry and allow them to "sky-dive" from orbit.
 
it would be cool if they had individual "egg" escape pods that would survive re-entry and allow them to "sky-dive" from orbit.
To give you an idea of how difficult that would be, think about the amount of energy a 200 pound astronaut moving at 17,000 miles per hour orbital speed has, and how to get rid of that. If my spit-ball math is correct, the energy in just the astronaut is enough to boil away 120 times his weight in water, starting from body temperature at 98.6 degrees F and ending as steam at 212 degrees F. So, that "egg" is going to need a lot of cooling, or a lot of rocket-powered deceleration before it hits the atmosphere, probably a combination.

The other part of this problem is G-forces, both from any deorbiting rocket and from the rest of the deceleration by atmospheric drag. That has to happen slowly enough to not break bones of suffocate the person because of inability to take a breath. Each astronaut has a "chair" made to fit his/her body. So, any "escape eggs" would probably need to be personalized for each crew member. And it would require some sort of control system to make sure that it didn't slam into the dense part of the atmosphere at too high a velocity and crush or vaporize the whole shebang.

Finally, if an egg can get an astronaut decelerated and through the atmosphere, it still needs to have some sort of parachute system for the final landing, because just a fall from a few hundred feet would still be fatal.

And, there needs to be some strong structure to hold the astronaut, cooling gear, parachute (and some other stuff not discussed) together for all of that trip down.

My guess is that it is more efficient to have one "egg" for several astronauts, rather than one egg for each. And, we already have such eggs, named "Dragon" and "Soyuz".
 
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Apparently, NASA has delayed the Dragon Crew 9 to September specifically to provide time for Boeing to program the StarLiner for robotic reentry. So, that is not off the table - at least not yet. There are still the possibilities that (1) NASA will decide it is safe enough to put the crew in the StarLiner for the decent, or (2) that Boeing will "fail" to update (backdate) the capsule firmware, and it is stuck there unless and until it is suitable for crew.

I would love to hear what Boeing's new CEO is telling the Starliner design/support team about now. But, he may not actually be in charge, yet - it's not official until the end of they year.
 

Laz

Mar 16, 2024
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To give you an idea of how difficult that would be, think about the amount of energy a 200 pound astronaut moving at 17,000 miles per hour orbital speed has, and how to get rid of that. If my spit-ball math is correct, the energy in just the astronaut is enough to boil away 120 times his weight in water, starting from body temperature at 98.6 degrees F and ending as steam at 212 degrees F. So, that "egg" is going to need a lot of cooling, or a lot of rocket-powered deceleration before it hits the atmosphere, probably a combination.

The other part of this problem is G-forces, both from any deorbiting rocket and from the rest of the deceleration by atmospheric drag. That has to happen slowly enough to not break bones of suffocate the person because of inability to take a breath. Each astronaut has a "chair" made to fit his/her body. So, any "escape eggs" would probably need to be personalized for each crew member. And it would require some sort of control system to make sure that it didn't slam into the dense part of the atmosphere at too high a velocity and crush or vaporize the whole shebang.

Finally, if an egg can get an astronaut decelerated and through the atmosphere, it still needs to have some sort of parachute system for the final landing, because just a fall from a few hundred feet would still be fatal.

And, there needs to be some strong structure to hold the astronaut, cooling gear, parachute (and some other stuff not discussed) together for all of that trip down.

My guess is that it is more efficient to have one "egg" for several astronauts, rather than one egg for each. And, we already have such eggs, named "Dragon" and "Soyuz".
sorry for the late reply here- thx for the consideration with your answer....yeah I was just spit-balling from an old sci-fi short story (either niven or drake I think...."elephants" hang-gliding in from orbit; and I liked the opening sequence to ad astra....and come to think of it now, escape pods were kinda common in star trek universe too werent they ?) ah well, sci fi junk food for an uneducated mind....too much junk these days- thx again.
Cheers !
 

Laz

Mar 16, 2024
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I was pondering this last night as I was about to sleep.....it occurred to me the video from the shuttle disaster survived the catastrophic breakup and fell only to be found later in a field. I recognize the physical math says it is "impossible"- but I do find it interesting that somehow it was possible for the tape to have survived.
 
I think it's safe to assume all the brightest and best Scientists and Engineers who are interested in space are going to be applying to the many new space companies and not want to work at Boeing and have it's legacy monolith around their necks.
It looks like that is the case.

This article https://seekingalpha.com/news/41412...nited-launch-alliance-to-sierra-space-reuters says that "ULA has lost ~45 of its 105 Launch Operations engineers at its primary launch site in Florida." (ULA is Boeing + Lockheed -Martin and the intended launcher of the StarLiner capsule.)

I am thinking that NASA could have put the $billions that it invested in Boeing's StarLiner into Sierra Space's DreamChaser instead, so we by now would have a working alternative to the SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule with the capability to just land at any airstrip.

The "safe bet" turned out to be the bad bet for NASA.
 

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